Squad for next Season

[Scott]

Can the club appeal this decision? 

[irnbru]

12 minutes ago, ChampTon said:

On another note, Dougie did say we weren't pursuing a player in the summer window because of a work permit appeal and I assume that was due to our finances. I wonder if we are in the position now to appeal this one. An absolute joke it's been rejected. 

Aye, would have thought the criteria was basically that a player had to be something we couldn't get here and he's surely in that category with his experience at a decent level. 

[Jamie_M]

35 minutes ago, ChampTon said:

On another note, Dougie did say we weren't pursuing a player in the summer window because of a work permit appeal and I assume that was due to our finances. I wonder if we are in the position now to appeal this one. An absolute joke it's been rejected. 

Did he not say we abandoned it due to the time taken to get a permit (months) rather than anything to do with appeals?

[port-ton]

Find it weird that someone who moved to the UK at 15 and played loads in the UK including Scotland last year wouldn't get a work permit. 

Can't lie I've no idea if he would have been good but I'd have loved a bit of a bastard added to the team. Another who could have had cult hero status by the end of the season. 

[The Bewilderedbeast]

2 hours ago, Jamie_M said:

Did he not say we abandoned it due to the time taken to get a permit (months) rather than anything to do with appeals?

Was that not the big plank that signed for Raith.

May be sour grapes on my part, but can't help but think that if his name was Nadirsan Ciftiakasho from Tokyo he'd have had his work permit delivered in a golden suitcase.

[Jamie_M]

16 minutes ago, The Bewilderedbeast said:

Was that not the big plank that signed for Raith.

May be sour grapes on my part, but can't help but think that if his name was Nadirsan Ciftiakasho from Tokyo he'd have had his work permit delivered in a golden suitcase.

Don't know. Think it was just an assumption that we gave up on a foreign striker due to the time it would take then that guy signed for Raith a few months later.

[Jamie_M]

And how in the fuck did they give dugshite like Bangala one to sign for Ayr but are rejecting Ciftci?

[TRVMP]

6 hours ago, port-ton said:

Find it weird that someone who moved to the UK at 15 and played loads in the UK including Scotland last year wouldn't get a work permit. 

Can't lie I've no idea if he would have been good but I'd have loved a bit of a bastard added to the team. Another who could have had cult hero status by the end of the season. 

Considering he's an experienced, senior player, he's actually barely played in the last couple of years. The amount of appearances a player makes is heavily slanted in favor of young players in any cas. Hence, for older players like Ciftci it's a dreadful look to have played as little as he has, and with such a tiny amount at the top level. Last European season, he played under 1,000 minutes of competitive football in the top flight. At his time in Perth, he made just eleven starts and four substitute appearances. You'd expect a young domestic player for a relegation struggling team like St. Johnstone to do similar, and also to get a similar number of goals (none.)

The rest of that season was spent sitting on the bench in the Turkish second division, where he made eleven appearances, every single one of them as a substitute. (He did start, and score, in the Cup, and I can't even be arsed looking up the strength of the opposition. I assume it's whatever the equivalent of a pub team is in Asia Minor.)

The last time he's had anything even close to resembling a successful run in a team was all the way back in 2020/21, again in the Turkish second tier, and even then he was hardly ever-present and was on the bench just as often as not.

Hate to say it but I think the club walked into this one. Yes, you can make the case that if we're not allowed to have him, the "Saintees" shouldn't either, but I'll take that as once bitten twice shy from the SFA.

While I think that Imrie could certainly motivate and get the best out of him, I can understand why the SFA feel differently and think it's just another chancer coming back to a place he can easily get a wage. For me, this is the correct decision from the governing authorities according to the rules that have been set.

[TRVMP]

3 hours ago, Jamie_M said:

And how in the fuck did they give dugshite like Bangala one to sign for Ayr but are rejecting Ciftci?

This, however, is an extremely pertinent question. The Slovakian "top" league? A guy who barely played in it? For a team who got relegated? How on earth did the SFA alight upon this one as the one to rubber-stamp?

[Greacen2000]

The criteria on how SFA grant endorsements to players start on page 264 of the SFA handbook

Ciftci clearly fails on the regular criteria (paragraphs 24-33) which are based on international, domestic & european appearances & ranking.  This explains why the article in the sun mentions that we applied to (and were rejected by) the exceptions panel

Paragraphs 53-60 outline the exceptions process, and on the face of it I can see why it was rejected based on the following

Quote

56. The panel’s terms of reference for are:

a) to consider whether the Player, Manager, Assistant Manager, Performance Manager or Director of Football is of the highest calibre

b) to consider whether the Player, Manager, Assistant Manager, Performance Manager or Director of Football is able to contribute significantly to the development of the game at the top level in Scotland

The "at the top level" part might explain why he was granted an endorsement for St Johnstone, although you could certainly question him being of the highest calibre, and the extent to which he was likely to "contribute significantly to the development of the game" but it's possible they might have been able to make a case built on his experience etc

None of this of course answers Jamie's question on how Bangala was approved.  Even considering that his last season in Slovakia the club were in the top tier (relegated), that still wouldn't be enough to qualify him on either the regular criteria or the exceptions process.

Putting aside all the work permit carry on, I have mixed feelings on this.  Undoubtedly Ciftci's stats the past few seasons do not look promising.  I also assume he would be coming in on good money, so might be a bit of a gamble in that respect.  On the other hand he is definitely someone who would be considered an exciting marquee signing at this level, and in the past has shown to have plenty of ability which I would have loved to see Dougie try to get out of him again.

Edited January 17, 2023 by Greacen2000

[irnbru]

15 minutes ago, Greacen2000 said:

The criteria on how SFA grant endorsements to players start on page 264 of the SFA handbook

Ciftci clearly fails on the regular criteria (paragraphs 24-33) which are based on international, domestic & european appearances & ranking.  This explains why the article in the sun mentions that we applied to (and were rejected by) the exceptions panel

Paragraphs 53-60 outline the exceptions process, and on the face of it I can see why it was rejected based on the following

The "at the top level" part might explain why he was granted an endorsement for St Johnstone, although you could certainly question him being of the highest calibre, and the extent to which he was likely to "contribute significantly to the development of the game" but it's possible they might have been able to make a case built on his experience etc

None of this of course answers Jamie's question on how Bangala was approved.  Even considering that his last season in Slovakia the club were in the top tier (relegated), that still wouldn't be enough to qualify him on either the regular criteria or the exceptions process.

Putting aside all the work permit carry on, I have mixed feelings on this.  Undoubtedly Ciftci's stats the past few seasons do not look promising.  I also assume he would be coming in on good money, so might be a bit of a gamble in that respect.  On the other hand he is definitely someone who would be considered an exciting marquee signing at this level, and in the past has shown to have plenty of ability which I would have loved to see Dougie try to get out of him again.

It's still pretty vague for me and they surely need to consider what level the team is at. 

Despite him not having a lot of game time recently, he was signed for the Scottish Champions about 4 years ago and is only 30 so it could be argued that's a high calibre for a mid table Championship team. 

On the second part, I think we have to be considered as top level or we'd never be able to get work permits in this league. With his experience then again it could be argued that there would be a significant contribution to the players around him. Given that he's coming from overseas and will likely be on a decent wage then the club are obviously of the belief he'll make a significant contribution or they wouldn't be spending that money. 

[Greacen2000]

13 minutes ago, irnbru said:

It's still pretty vague for me and they surely need to consider what level the team is at. 

Despite him not having a lot of game time recently, he was signed for the Scottish Champions about 4 years ago and is only 30 so it could be argued that's a high calibre for a mid table Championship team. 

On the second part, I think we have to be considered as top level or we'd never be able to get work permits in this league. With his experience then again it could be argued that there would be a significant contribution to the players around him. Given that he's coming from overseas and will likely be on a decent wage then the club are obviously of the belief he'll make a significant contribution or they wouldn't be spending that money. 

The criteria in 24-33 seems to all be relating to current/most recent club & current or last season, so to that end I don't think that his time with celtic would make any difference - its about where we are signing him from and his track record there.

On the exceptions, I do agree that its a bit ambiguous.  If "top level" means 1st tier, then clearly that isn't us.  It could on the other hand mean "full time professional".  If the latter is the case, then I would have hoped that we could make a compelling case that his prior experience would be valuable in helping to develop our young players, and raising the profile of the league etc.  I assume that its on this basis that he got a permit for St Johnstone, although I cannot see how the same could apply to Bangala so I've no idea how he got approved.

[irnbru]

1 minute ago, Greacen2000 said:

The criteria in 24-33 seems to all be relating to current/most recent club & current or last season, so to that end I don't think that his time with celtic would make any difference - its about where we are signing him from and his track record there.

On the exceptions, I do agree that its a bit ambiguous.  If "top level" means 1st tier, then clearly that isn't us.  It could on the other hand mean "full time professional".  If the latter is the case, then I would have hoped that we could make a compelling case that his prior experience would be valuable in helping to develop our young players, and raising the profile of the league etc.  I assume that its on this basis that he got a permit for St Johnstone, although I cannot see how the same could apply to Bangala so I've no idea how he got approved.

Aye, its the exception bit that I think is applicable for us. 

He's clearly and experienced player at a higher level than us and would bring something to the team we don't have. The fact he's likely to be one of our top earners (if not the top would back this up). 

I guess the difference in the two players is what the panel thinks of the player. 

[dunning1874]

6 hours ago, EanieMeany said:

Should definitely be a back 3/5, and the time we give up on players who can’t even cut it in our own league (or the ones below).

Bring McGrattan inside for Blues, start King on the left and put Pignatiello on the right to double up with Grimshaw. In two positions it’s an upgrade on what’s been happening, and whilst Carlo isn’t a natural attacker, he’s at least got a bit of a brain in his head and will bring a bit of discipline and help retain the ball rather than just charging aimlessly into the first defender. 

If we're going to a back five, putting Pignatiello and King out wide and putting McGrattan in central midfield then we are playing a 5-5-0, unless you're dropping Gillespie or Crawford.

[EanieMeany]

6 minutes ago, dunning1874 said:

If we're going to a back five, putting Pignatiello and King out wide and putting McGrattan in central midfield then we are playing a 5-5-0, unless you're dropping Gillespie or Crawford.

Ah Christ, that was in the wrong thread. I’ll move it over later, and be capable of counting to 11 when I get round to it

Edited January 17, 2023 by EanieMeany

[Tubes]

Craig Levein and Gary Holt part of the panel for the hearing aswell apparently. Both already on the absolute cunt list anyway!

[EanieMeany]

Always baffling to me that that Levein has any greater prominence in Scottish football than annoying any cunt within earshot in his local boozer with self-aggrandising tales of past life as a footballing “visionary”. 

Edited January 18, 2023 by EanieMeany

[ChampTon]

Was there any news on us appealing the decision or are we moving on to other targets?

[GiGi]

41 minutes ago, ChampTon said:

Was there any news on us appealing the decision or are we moving on to other targets?

Think we were initially turned down and the news broke after we lost the appeal. So the move will be off now.

[ChampTon]

1 hour ago, GiGi said:

Think we were initially turned down and the news broke after we lost the appeal. So the move will be off now.

Will be interesting when Strapp is off if we will be granted a work permit for Izaguirre.