Match Preview/Thread - Arbroath vs Morton (29th April)

[Albundy]

15 hours ago, Albundy said:

That wasn't good enough last game of the season fans paying a fortune to follow the team and getting horsed off a part time Arbroath reserve team yet again a poor poor end to the season. Don't understand why Imrie didn't play a stronger side pretty sure the club would have got more prize money for finishing 6th 

After seeing Dougie's post match interview I take my post back. Dougie was proving a point by playing the bulk of the players signed next season plus having a look at what they can do. Major rebuilding work needed.

[SpoonTon]

10 minutes ago, port-ton said:

Doesn't sound like someone who's too happy with his budget from that but did imply for the first time that he'd be here to build a team next season. 

Be interesting to see what the squad looks like come the start of next season. 

10 to re-sign or replace. 3 loans ending to replace. Plus the 7 starters from last night who are already signed up, as well as Lithgow, Bysouth, and Garrity.  

Given what we saw last night, Imrie's got a tough job on his hands.  A tight budget and nothing much of use signed up as of yet. 

[DumfriesTon]

One of the worst things Gus did was sign the likes of Hynes on a 2 year deal after one decent game he had against QoS last season. Jacobs on a 2 (or was it 3??!!) year deal was another peculiar decision. He's left us with some utter shite for the foreseeable.

[SpoonTon]

30 minutes ago, DumfriesTon said:

One of the worst things Gus did was sign the likes of Hynes on a 2 year deal after one decent game he had against QoS last season. Jacobs on a 2 (or was it 3??!!) year deal was another peculiar decision. He's left us with some utter shite for the foreseeable.

Who's making some of these decisions, though? McGrattan was given another two years and Easdale another year. For players of their age who haven't really managed to make an impact, it's a bit strange. A one year deal for McGrattan, perhaps, but why the two year deal? Like with Hynes, it feels like a club decision about developing players. 

Jacobs was a gamble, same goes for Lithgow. 2 year deals are often a gamble, but sometimes what it taken to get them to sign. I don't think many complained about Jacobs deal at the time, but it's not looking clever now. 

[Jamie_M]

38 minutes ago, DumfriesTon said:

Jacobs on a 2 (or was it 3??!!) year deal was another peculiar decision.

Jacobs re-signing and being tied down for a couple of years when most expected him to he away (as probably the next to jump ship to Ayr) was largely met with a mixture of surprise and delight when it happened.

Not defending Gus's dealings (and we'd have been in an even worse position if some of his other moves had come off such as the 'very good offer' he made to McGinty to try to get him to stay) but saying there was much wrong with the Jacobs deal is wide of the mark without the hindsight of how this season has gone for him.

[EanieMeany]

4 hours ago, SpoonTon said:

My argument would be that he would have learned more about the likes of King and McGregor if he had given each of them some playing time around much better, established players. We've not been great recently, but nothing like that - that was a whole different level. I've not often seen a Morton team outclassed like that - I've seen Morton teams down tools and take a hammering plenty of times (or just been awful in defence), but that was brutal in terms of the gulf in class. Arbroath pretty much held possession of the ball at will. In fairness to the players out there, they didn't give up. It felt a bit cruel in the end, though. 

If it's a valuable lesson in how we get there, then we've already made mistakes in who we've given contracts to for next season. 

That may be true, but what it showed us was that if you want to "do an Arbroath", for want of a better term, then you need to have a pool of players who are all able to compete and who can be switched around and still maintain the same general approach. A well-built squad shouldn't just be a collection of whatever players you can get your hands on and the obligatory Benelux ringer, it should be a group that fits together and allows changes to be made without disrupting the whole thing. You can't make that happen overnight (or in one transfer window), but it was a reminder that it's not just a starting team that's needed, it's the depth too. Every team will miss good players if they're not there, but the impact of Lyon's disappearing act and then Lithgow's absence really shouldn't have been as significant as they were. You need to have options that can fill the gaps rather than having to rejig the whole thing or have it fall apart.

As for putting the youngsters in with better players...like who? We've been fuckin rotten the last few games, so it's not like there was this solid core to fit the younger players around. I've no complaints with people being dropped after the last two games, not when it was a nothing game on the last day - it's highly unlikely the outcome would have been any different if it had been the same team that went out against ICT. 

We seen last night that King has improved a lot since earlier in the season but probably isn't going to be ready to be a first-teamer next season, we seen that Lyon and Jacobs isn't a pairing that can be relied upon and that reinforced the notion that we need to sign starting midfielders rather than doling out new deals to the likes of Blues as a "squad player". We also seen the importance of actually having attackers in your team and not Alec feckin Easdale who surely, surely has to be well aware of his position and be embarrassed by it. It's hard to sympathise too much with him, but fuckin hell...it's painful to watch. He'd do himself a favour by chucking it rather than embarrassing himself in public like that.

It wasn't a great night, but I don't think it's really a huge catastrophe either. I'm sure Dougie was able to get a lot from it, and if nothing else it strengthens his hand if there's any quibbles over budgeting. 

The main thing is that this season is finally out the way. We done well to stay up and there's a much better vibe about the place now but let's face it, it was still pretty shite really. It's done and we can hopefully just get on with looking forward to a much better one next time round.

[vikingTON]

1 hour ago, SpoonTon said:

10 to re-sign or replace. 3 loans ending to replace. Plus the 7 starters from last night who are already signed up, as well as Lithgow, Bysouth, and Garrity.  

Given what we saw last night, Imrie's got a tough job on his hands.  A tight budget and nothing much of use signed up as of yet. 

A manager with anything about them in lower league Scottish football should be delighted at having a clean slate to go into the summer and build their own team. If anything, the problem is that we've signed up some players who are very unlikely to make the grade. 

[SpoonTon]

4 minutes ago, EanieMeany said:

That may be true, but what it showed us was that if you want to "do an Arbroath", for want of a better term, then you need to have a pool of players who are all able to compete and who can be switched around and still maintain the same general approach. A well-built squad shouldn't just be a collection of players, it should be a group that fits together and mean changes can be made without disrupting the whole thing. You can't make that happen overnight (or in one transfer window), but it was a reminder that it's not just a starting team that's needed, it's the depth too.

As for putting them in with better players...like who? We've been fuckin rotten the last few games, so it's not like there was this solid core to fit the younger players around. We seen last night that King has improved a lot since earlier in the season but probably isn't going to be ready to be a first-teamer next season, we seen that Lyon and Jacobs isn't a pairing that can be relied upon and that reinforced the notion that we need to sign starting midfielders rather than doling out new deals to the likes of Blues as a "squad player". 

It wasn't a great night, but I don't think it's really a huge catastrophe either. I'm sure Dougie was able to get a lot from it, and if nothing else it strengthens his hand if there's any quibbles over budgeting. 

The main thing is that this season is finally out the way. We done well to stay up and there's a much better vibe about the place now but let's face it, it was still pretty shite really. It's done and we can hopefully just get on with looking forward to a much better one next time round.

I absolutely agree that squad depth is important and something that we've lacked, but despite how poor we've been of late this team has taken us to safety from a pretty desperate place at Christmas. Ugwu and Riley are infinitely better than Easdale. Of course they would be of more help to players like King and McGregor. Players learn from playing alongside better quality players. The front three last night are lowland league quality, our other forwards are lower championship/upper league one quality. 

I also agree that the priority is signing quality first team players. There's no point just trying to fill out a squad. A good squad is best improved over time, from bringing in quality players. That's why I think it's pointless retaining McGrattan and Easdale as squad players - why retain players who already aren't good enough to start in the squad we have? Blues has at least shown in recent months that he had something about him, but not enough that we can retain him with the rest already signed up. In an ideal world I'd retain most of the starting players who have got us to this position, and look to add quality to that. As it is I'm worried that we'll be looking to bring in as best we can to start, with dross to back it up. 

[SpoonTon]

16 minutes ago, vikingTON said:

A manager with anything about them in lower league Scottish football should be delighted at having a clean slate to go into the summer and build their own team. If anything, the problem is that we've signed up some players who are very unlikely to make the grade. 

Yes and no. That's definitely a problem, from our position you should retain only those who are the best among what you have. Also from our position there are too many risky signings, so being able to retain the best of what you have is usually more helpful than trying to fill an entire squad. 

The most vital aspect is always being able to bring in better players than what you already have. Quality players also help those around them. A blank slate isn't the end of the world, and better than being lumped with players who aren't good enough, but it's also not ideal. I mean, it is positive that Imrie can make his own choices over who he wants to retain among the regular starters (and, as always, there shouldn't be a rush to retain players who aren't exactly world beaters). It's negative that what we saw last night is what we have already - I'd take an entire blank slate over the position we're currently in.