Match Preview/Thread - Morton vs Inverness (23rd April)

[port-ton]

5 minutes ago, dunning1874 said:

Aye, no one has explicitly said anything that categorically denies it and it's still possible there has been a fallout which could lead to him leaving after next weekend, but all the rumours suggested he had left already; he evidently hasn't.

Ahh okay. That wasn't specifically rumour I heard but I just presumed that they meant that he was off at end of the season and wasn't taking us next season. 

Hopefully all just the usual morton fan pre season rumour mill. What I would say though is that we've wanted for years an ambitious manager who sees his career bigger than Morton, and now we finally have one if the board turn around and tell him his already bottom of the food chain full time budget is getting lowered further then you could see a situation where a manager like Imrie would tell them to shove it. 

[so72]

Paul Kelly saying its not true on Facebook. Probably as close a source to the club as possible.

[GiGi]

I assumed Imrie leaving on Saturday was because he does not in fact live at Cappielow and was going home. 

[SpoonTon]

I think it's clear that we are a better team with Lyon in the starting line-up, and the stats seem to back that up. The record with Lyon and Blues starting together in midfield in the league is pretty good (4 wins, 4 draws, 1 loss, I think, which is comfortable play-off form). There's been something a bit off about team selection for a while - we haven't won many games recently where we didn't need to make changes to the starting line-up to achieve that. 

I do think that something fairly significant needs to change, but I don't think it's a massive overhaul that's needed. That being said, I'm not sure we can really change what needs to be changed. I think what we lack is quality in certain positions and decent depth to the squad. To be honest, I'm not sure what players like Hynes, Easedale, and McGrattan are going to bring to the squad. Blues, Muirhead, Russell, and Ledger seem like the type of squad players that a club of our ambitions need - if we're stuck with the small number of quality players plus youngsters, then we cannot afford the likes of the latter but I fail to see what keeping around younger players who should be starting to build up their career from a lower level at their age is going to achieve for us. We're just going to end up with the same problems with lacking quality in certain positions and lacking depth. 

I think we need a winger, right back, centre-half, and creative midfielder, and a striker or two to replace the leaving loan players and 3 or 4 others. I'm not sure we'll be able to do that, though. I fear, one way or another, we will either leave ourselves with the same issues we already have. 

[Madton]

1 hour ago, SpoonTon said:

I think it's clear that we are a better team with Lyon in the starting line-up, and the stats seem to back that up. The record with Lyon and Blues starting together in midfield in the league is pretty good (4 wins, 4 draws, 1 loss, I think, which is comfortable play-off form). There's been something a bit off about team selection for a while - we haven't won many games recently where we didn't need to make changes to the starting line-up to achieve that. 

I do think that something fairly significant needs to change, but I don't think it's a massive overhaul that's needed. That being said, I'm not sure we can really change what needs to be changed. I think what we lack is quality in certain positions and decent depth to the squad. To be honest, I'm not sure what players like Hynes, Easedale, and McGrattan are going to bring to the squad. Blues, Muirhead, Russell, and Ledger seem like the type of squad players that a club of our ambitions need - if we're stuck with the small number of quality players plus youngsters, then we cannot afford the likes of the latter but I fail to see what keeping around younger players who should be starting to build up their career from a lower level at their age is going to achieve for us. We're just going to end up with the same problems with lacking quality in certain positions and lacking depth. 

I think we need a winger, right back, centre-half, and creative midfielder, and a striker or two to replace the leaving loan players and 3 or 4 others. I'm not sure we'll be able to do that, though. I fear, one way or another, we will either leave ourselves with the same issues we already have. 

I'd like to think we wont be left with underlying issues going into next season.

We only have 4 first team players signed up for next season in Lithgow, Lyon, Hynes and Jacobs  so Dougie has pretty much all the freedom he could wish for to build his own team. 

Of those 4, we could potentially see all 4 move on. Dougie has expressed his concern multiple times about our slow defence so if he does revert to his favoured 433 where does that leave Lithgow? Will the big man even want to stay?  Jacobs will be moving on surely and there's obviously something amiss with Lyon. Hynes probably on peanuts so can probably hang around as a backup RB, we are not going to have 2 quality options for every position. He might even decide to move on to play football every week, he's 23 now and has only 20 starts to his name so he might feel it best to move to League 1/2 and try something new.

On McGrattan, Garrity King etc. I think we need these guys around to provide backup to 1st team squad. I doubt we will have budget for 20 odd 1st team players, most likely 18 with 3 or 4 dev boys on standby if need be. The 3 players mentioned have all made an impact and I'm interested to see their development over the next year or two. Less said about Easdale the better.

Big summer ahead. i trust Dougie knows what he wants and I'm pretty confident he will build a good squad, as long as a decent enough budget is available. 

Just hope we don't leave it until the last day of the transfer window, built it early and give us a the best chance of a good start in the cup and league.

[dunning1874]

1 hour ago, SpoonTon said:

I think it's clear that we are a better team with Lyon in the starting line-up, and the stats seem to back that up. The record with Lyon and Blues starting together in midfield in the league is pretty good (4 wins, 4 draws, 1 loss, I think, which is comfortable play-off form). There's been something a bit off about team selection for a while - we haven't won many games recently where we didn't need to make changes to the starting line-up to achieve that. 

I do think that something fairly significant needs to change, but I don't think it's a massive overhaul that's needed. That being said, I'm not sure we can really change what needs to be changed. I think what we lack is quality in certain positions and decent depth to the squad. To be honest, I'm not sure what players like Hynes, Easedale, and McGrattan are going to bring to the squad. Blues, Muirhead, Russell, and Ledger seem like the type of squad players that a club of our ambitions need - if we're stuck with the small number of quality players plus youngsters, then we cannot afford the likes of the latter but I fail to see what keeping around younger players who should be starting to build up their career from a lower level at their age is going to achieve for us. We're just going to end up with the same problems with lacking quality in certain positions and lacking depth. 

I think we need a winger, right back, centre-half, and creative midfielder, and a striker or two to replace the leaving loan players and 3 or 4 others. I'm not sure we'll be able to do that, though. I fear, one way or another, we will either leave ourselves with the same issues we already have. 

Yeah, unless it's an Allan Jenkins level of glaringly obvious difference to a team I'm wary of using stats like that for individual players as there can be lots of other factors at play - Imrie's touchline ban, other teams simply getting used to our style of play, you could equally flip these round to be a criticism of Wilson when I don't think that'd be fair - but they do seem to add up to us really missing Lyon. I've said before that while bringing in Wilson to tighten us up and reduce the instances of conceding from the edge of the box was the right thing to do and it has worked despite not totally eradicating it, we need Lyon's ability to drive with the ball at his feet to move us up the park in this shape if we're going to have Wilson there, and Blues simply can't replicate that for all he has added to his game.

As you've covered there, Lyon started all of Imrie's first 7 league games in charge as we had a record of W4 D2 L1, scoring 13. He was dropped for game 8 and the 10 games since have been W3 D4 L3, scoring 7. The 2-1 v Partick, the only game we've scored more than once in in that time, was the only game Lyon started, and another saw us get the winner after he came off the bench. As above there are lots of other factors - we'd also switched to 4-3-3 before both goals in that 2-1 v Partick for example - but it's hard to argue against the dropping of Lyon being one of the factors in our form tailing off.

As for the squad next season, Ledger and Russell are players I'd keep because we have a whole defensive rebuild to do already as it is, and competent full back cover is hard to find. When we already need to be adding 3/4 defenders as it is we can do without making it 5 or 6. We have the opposite problem in midfield and attack. Blues is someone whose performances under Imrie in isolation absolutely merit a new contract and I'd be happy to have as cover, but with Jacobs and Lyon already under contract and Wilson a bigger priority for a new deal then we simply can't justify a new deal for him as cover. We need to leave room for upgrades to the starting XI, and the same argument applies to Muirhead. I don't really see the likes of McGrattan and Garrity taking presumable pittances out of the budget as changing that logic.

[SpoonTon]

28 minutes ago, Madton said:

I'd like to think we wont be left with underlying issues going into next season.

We only have 4 first team players signed up for next season in Lithgow, Lyon, Hynes and Jacobs  so Dougie has pretty much all the freedom he could wish for to build his own team. 

Of those 4, we could potentially see all 4 move on. Dougie has expressed his concern multiple times about our slow defence so if he does revert to his favoured 433 where does that leave Lithgow? Will the big man even want to stay?  Jacobs will be moving on surely and there's obviously something amiss with Lyon. Hynes probably on peanuts so can probably hang around as a backup RB, we are not going to have 2 quality options for every position. He might even decide to move on to play football every week, he's 23 now and has only 20 starts to his name so he might feel it best to move to League 1/2 and try something new.

On McGrattan, Garrity King etc. I think we need these guys around to provide backup to 1st team squad. I doubt we will have budget for 20 odd 1st team players, most likely 18 with 3 or 4 dev boys on standby if need be. The 3 players mentioned have all made an impact and I'm interested to see their development over the next year or two. Less said about Easdale the better.

Big summer ahead. i trust Dougie knows what he wants and I'm pretty confident he will build a good squad, as long as a decent enough budget is available. 

Just hope we don't leave it until the last day of the transfer window, built it early and give us a the best chance of a good start in the cup and league.

Surely McGrattan and Easdale, at 21 and 22, at this stage have to be seen at first team players? I mean, if they're full-time players they need to be paid a full-time salary. Even at minimum wage that surely makes their inclusion in the squad questionable. Whatever they are on, is it money well spent when we have a very tight budget? Surely there are better 17/18/19 year olds out there dropping out of bigger clubs this summer who would add better value to the squad and the club? 

That means that we have Hynes, McGrattan, Easdale, Lithgow, Lyon, and Jacobs signed up for next season as well as Garrity, King, and McGregor. The latter 3 might be better with a season or a few months away on loan, but might provide some limited cover. Of the other six, I would only keep Lyon. If we are to be ruthless, surely it starts with clearing out the weakest parts of the squad?

[SpoonTon]

7 minutes ago, dunning1874 said:

Yeah, unless it's an Allan Jenkins level of glaringly obvious difference to a team I'm wary of using stats like that for individual players as there can be lots of other factors at play - Imrie's touchline ban, other teams simply getting used to our style of play, you could equally flip these round to be a criticism of Wilson when I don't think that'd be fair - but they do seem to add up to us really missing Lyon. I've said before that while bringing in Wilson to tighten us up and reduce the instances of conceding from the edge of the box was the right thing to do and it has worked despite not totally eradicating it, we need Lyon's ability to drive with the ball at his feet to move us up the park in this shape if we're going to have Wilson there, and Blues simply can't replicate that for all he has added to his game.

As you've covered there, Lyon started all of Imrie's first 7 league games in charge as we had a record of W4 D2 L1, scoring 13. He was dropped for game 8 and the 10 games since have been W3 D4 L3, scoring 7. The 2-1 v Partick, the only game we've scored more than once in in that time, was the only game Lyon started, and another saw us get the winner after he came off the bench. As above there are lots of other factors - we'd also switched to 4-3-3 before both goals in that 2-1 v Partick for example - but it's hard to argue against the dropping of Lyon being one of the factors in our form tailing off.

As for the squad next season, Ledger and Russell are players I'd keep because we have a whole defensive rebuild to do already as it is, and competent full back cover is hard to find. When we already need to be adding 3/4 defenders as it is we can do without making it 5 or 6. We have the opposite problem in midfield and attack. Blues is someone whose performances under Imrie in isolation absolutely merit a new contract and I'd be happy to have as cover, but with Jacobs and Lyon already under contract and Wilson a bigger priority for a new deal then we simply can't justify a new deal for him as cover. We need to leave room for upgrades to the starting XI, and the same argument applies to Muirhead. I don't really see the likes of McGrattan and Garrity taking presumable pittances out of the budget as changing that logic.

There are other factors at play, so it's not a stat I'm putting an awful lot behind, but I do feel that Blues and Lyon have contributed to some of our best performances when they have been in the team together. I was going to add that the argument is stronger for Lyon, he's started less than half of the matches but two thirds of our wins have come in those games. I agree with what you say about Blues (i.e. we can only keep him if Jacobs leaves), but I also don't think there much of a role for Jacobs in there anyway if we manage to retain Wilson - which is one part of what I mean about my fears (having Jacobs and Wilson as two of the higher earners when there is only really space for one in the starting 11). My larger point here is I think that Blues, Wilson, Lyon would be a good starting point for the centre of midfield next season, with the aim being to add someone who's really comfortable putting their foot on the ball and looking to create. I'm not sure Jacobs fits in to that anywhere (unless we don't retain Wilson and he comes back into form). 

Are McGrattan and Easdale only part-time or something, btw, why the assumption they are taking so little out of the budget?

[EanieMeany]

Since Lyon's mysterious disappearing act the entire set-up of the team has been predicated on the midfield not being good enough to be the main part of the team, it's why we've ended up defending as deep and tight around Lithgow so there's really no justification in anything that's happened for holding on to the players who've made that necessary.

It's a little bit simplistic, but it's not coincidental that we weren't as good when the one player that can properly dominate a midfield dropped out (the 5-1, 2-0 and 2-1 wins against Dunfermline, Ayr and Queens respectively effectively saved our season; the next fixtures against them saw a backs to the wall 1-1 draw, a fairly uninspired 1-1 draw at home and a 3-0 scudding), and then when the player the defence/team was built round in response to Lyon disappearing was unavailable it fell apart altogether in the last two games. The biggest difference between the midfield, Blues in particular, in those games and previous ones was that there was a unit there to protect it and the reality of it was exposed without that. Wilson has largely been carrying it since he settled in. 

Over the least 10 games, we sit bottom of the form table. We shouldn't be kidding ourselves on that this is a good team, it's not and a significant part of that is because we're trying to operate with players like Blues as midfielders. We can't be having players at the club for 3 seasons offering little of real substance, being part of teams that can't win games, that barely score goals and doesn't do a great deal to protect the defence and then turn round and reward them with yet another new contract. There's nothing to be sentimental about here, it's been a bad season in which we've barely stumbled over the line, and we need to get shot of players who aren't good enough if we've any serious plans for progressing. 

 

 

[Boogs49]

40 minutes ago, EanieMeany said:

 

Over the least 10 games, we sit bottom of the form table. We shouldn't be kidding ourselves on that this is a good team, it's not and a significant part of that is because we're trying to operate with players like Blues as midfielders. We can't be having players at the club for 3 seasons offering little of real substance, being part of teams that can't win games, that barely score goals and doesn't do a great deal to protect the defence and then turn round and reward them with yet another new contract. There's nothing to be sentimental about here, it's been a bad season in which we've barely stumbled over the line, and we need to get shot of players who aren't good enough if we've any serious plans for progressing. 

 

 

Do you want to check the form table again, assuming you mean last 10 instead of least 10?

Over last 10 games we are actually 5th on 13 points

Over last 8 games we are 7th on 9 points

Over last 6 games we are 8th on 6 points

 

[EanieMeany]

16 minutes ago, Boogs49 said:

Do you want to check the form table again, assuming you mean last 10 instead of least 10?

Over last 10 games we are actually 5th on 13 points

Over last 8 games we are 7th on 9 points

Over last 6 games we are 8th on 6 points

 

I just took it from here tbh, didn't bother to verify it: https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/scottish-championship/formtabelle/wettbewerb/SC2?saison_id=2021&min=26&max=36

Either way, it's nothing to shout about and still points to a distinctly mediocre at best team.

Edit: Not sure what's going on with that table, it's obviously missed a game somewhere. Was a bit surprised seeing us bottom of it tbh, but just assumed it'd be accurate.

[vikingTON]

1 hour ago, SpoonTon said:

My larger point here is I think that Blues, Wilson, Lyon would be a good starting point for the centre of midfield next season, with the aim being to add someone who's really comfortable putting their foot on the ball and looking to create. 

I've no idea why anyone seriously thinks that is the case. It seems to be based entirely on a team-wide bounce in performance and results after Imrie took over, that does not actually reflect the central midfield's performance in matches for months now - it is garbage and a clear weak link. Saturday's central midfield display was the nadir - I don't think they actually strung together a credible passing sequence or effective through ball for the forwards all game. 

There are tactical explanations for that as well but if we are aiming to just keep Wilson and swap out Jacobs for a different first choice midfielder as our only changes, then we will not be dominating many games with the ball next season. 

With Lyon and other players on the fringes of the first team already signed up for next season, we cannot justify giving Blues a new deal as well. We should be looking to get Jacobs out on a transfer and Blues off the books as well, to afford that genuine upgrade in quality.

Without that upgrade, we can forget about a credible play-off challenge and will be looking over our shoulders instead. 

[dunning1874]

1 hour ago, SpoonTon said:

There are other factors at play, so it's not a stat I'm putting an awful lot behind, but I do feel that Blues and Lyon have contributed to some of our best performances when they have been in the team together. I was going to add that the argument is stronger for Lyon, he's started less than half of the matches but two thirds of our wins have come in those games. I agree with what you say about Blues (i.e. we can only keep him if Jacobs leaves), but I also don't think there much of a role for Jacobs in there anyway if we manage to retain Wilson - which is one part of what I mean about my fears (having Jacobs and Wilson as two of the higher earners when there is only really space for one in the starting 11). My larger point here is I think that Blues, Wilson, Lyon would be a good starting point for the centre of midfield next season, with the aim being to add someone who's really comfortable putting their foot on the ball and looking to create. I'm not sure Jacobs fits in to that anywhere (unless we don't retain Wilson and he comes back into form). 

Are McGrattan and Easdale only part-time or something, btw, why the assumption they are taking so little out of the budget?

I could be wrong, but I would have guessed their wages would be closer to the average youth player rather than being a proper first team wage akin to what the likes of Blues and Muirhead will be getting.

While I do think Imrie probably will move Jacobs on, I can still see a space for him tbh. If we're switching to a 4-3-3 as the preferred formation then I think Wilson as the first choice holding player with Jacobs as cover for him works, you don't want to have no one else who can properly perform that sitting role if Wilson gets injured, something he's no stranger to. Of course there's the debate of whether Jacobs is taking too good a wage to justify keeping as cover himself, but Wilson with Jacobs as cover then two new signings with Lyon and McGrattan as cover would stand us in better stead than keeping Blues over Jacobs as well and only having room to add one more creative central midfielder; if Jacobs goes we still need to add cover for Wilson.

[SpoonTon]

1 hour ago, dunning1874 said:

I could be wrong, but I would have guessed their wages would be closer to the average youth player rather than being a proper first team wage akin to what the likes of Blues and Muirhead will be getting.

While I do think Imrie probably will move Jacobs on, I can still see a space for him tbh. If we're switching to a 4-3-3 as the preferred formation then I think Wilson as the first choice holding player with Jacobs as cover for him works, you don't want to have no one else who can properly perform that sitting role if Wilson gets injured, something he's no stranger to. Of course there's the debate of whether Jacobs is taking too good a wage to justify keeping as cover himself, but Wilson with Jacobs as cover then two new signings with Lyon and McGrattan as cover would stand us in better stead than keeping Blues over Jacobs as well and only having room to add one more creative central midfielder; if Jacobs goes we still need to add cover for Wilson.

I'd take that scenario, and I'm certainly not going to waste time arguing too vociferously for Blues (I don't rate him that highly) but part of my assumptions were that Jacobs signing a two year deal as club captain meant that he was among the highest earners at the club (higher than a player like Blues, but I have no insider knowledge to back that up). I can't see us being able to afford to bring in two additional central midfield players alongside Wilson, Jacobs, Lyon, and McGrattan. At most I'd guess we might equal the number we currently have, which would mean a replacement for Blues only (in that case hopefully I'm wrong with my assumption that he isn't a top earner). A lack of goals from the centre of midfield had been an issue. Lyon and Jacobs have one goal between them over the last two seasons, and Wilson seems like a single goal a season type of player. That's a concern. It's already having to weigh up defensive cover or players who carry a bit more threat going forward. 

So I'd absolutely take your scenario of replacing Blues with two new players, but that's going to take up a good bit of the budget. Maybe if they're also flexible enough to also cover roles in the front three it could be made to work. 

[Madton]

I think a lot depends on how Imrie plans to play 433( assuming that's his plan)

Will he go Liverpool style where the 2 full backs are expected to get forward at every opportunity and create chances in which case he will prob play 2 holding midfielders to protect the back 2.

If its more of a rigid back 4 then aye def need some creative, box to box types in there with Wilson (assuming he signs).

Still think there is a chance for Lyon just needs to sort this issue (guessing attitude in training) out as when he plays we look better and Dougie must know that.

If Dougie doesn't rate him then the contract extension was ridiculous, even for a fans favourite as no one will pay money for him if he's not playing.

Shame as I think it's clear we all rate him but I guess we need to trust Dougie to sort it out .

[DumfriesTon]

Assuming we're going for the 4-3-3 formation, I'd have Lyon in as the holding midfielder in that. Maybe keep Wilson as cover for him but I wouldn't be bothered if he leaves. I reckon Imrie will offer him a new deal though as he seems to like him.

Try and get rid of Jacobs as he's just not very good. I'm sure Queens will take him back. Wish him all the best but we can get better. 

Blues I'm really undecided on and keep changing my opinion on it. Probably in thanks for your efforts but release camp at the moment. 

Just a thing on Easdale. I think he could be one of the worst ever Morton players, in my lifetime anyway. I really hope he's on peanuts because what a waste of money it is having him on the books. Feel a bit sorry watching him in all honesty, just seems to lack any sort of footballing intelligence and ability. 

[DreamOakTree]

I think Dougie will just cut his losses and let the “might be” players leave. We need a midfield playmaker which we haven’t had since Michael Tidser and we should stop pretending otherwise. Guys like Wilson, Lyon and Blues flatter to deceive but it’s clear they will never be the answer. Gary Oliver is a complete enigma to me as when the ball goes to his feet he never loses it but never produces anything efficient. Dougie will know all this far better than we do so I have faith he’ll sort it out. I would like to keep Hamilton, Strapp and Russell but I’m not over fussy about anyone else, Albiet on their game Muirhead and Reilly can be match winners, but just not often enough. I’m happy to leave it to Dougie to sort it out.

[TRVMP]

Strapp is surely, surely away. There were more scouts than away fans there on Saturday. Even allowing for training compensation, teams above us will do well to find a better young player for the money. He easily has enough about him for a bottom half Premiership team and with time he could get even better. As much as I'd love him to stay, I fully expect he'll be fixed up with a richer club than us by June. 

If he moves to a non-Scottish club the compensation rules will restrict us to a set fee based on the stature of the club that signs him, but the fact that he's been here for the entirety of his youth training (I believe?) serves us well. If he moves to another Scottish club it goes to a tribunal if we can't agree a fee.

[Alibi]

Much as Blues has improved, I don’t think he’s the answer if we want to raise our game. We have looked better when Lyon is also playing at the same time, but that’s a reason to play Lyon and another, better, midfielder, not a reason to keep Blues. I have no idea what is up with Reece that is keeping him out the starting XI, but whatever it is, it’s not helping the team. He has signed an extension so presumably is happy to stay and Morton want to keep him.

There are I think more MCT members than last year, so that may mean a modest increase in budget, but it will probably be more than swallowed up by inflation which is now about 8%.

I’m sure  Dougie will have a plan and some idea of who he wants to sign. I expect he will be ruthless, so we can expect major changes in the squad. I have not much idea which of the development players will be good enough in time, but Mcgrattan looks a possibility from what little I have seen. Easdale clearly is not a footballer at our level & his cameo appearances are just an embarrassment. Some of the other development players might make it but too soon to tell.

At least this year we can start planning now and no after play offs. I expect Dougies has a list of targets already.

[SassenachTon]

I agree about Strapp. Much as I’d love to see him treading the boards for Morton next season, I think that his departure for greener pastures is virtually inevitable.