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2020-21 Championship playoffs


TRVMP

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2 hours ago, vikingTON said:

I won't be giving a toss whether we win the play-offs or not.

"Does this mean the outlay to appoint McPherson for the run-in was wasted cash, as we could’ve just accepted our lot of relegation?"

Given that the fitness coach ended up with a better points return than McPherson, you've got that the wrong way round.

It was certainly a waste now that we're in this play-off position - and the best interests of the club do not involve a gormless stay of execution for 12 months.

"Surely we have the defensive backbone of a team to which the new regime need to mainly add better attacking options. Dundee, Motherwell and Hearts couldn’t beat us recently so there is a foundation there to compete better in the Championship."

We also couldn't beat fucking relegated Alloa or register a single shot in target against Arbroath so the answer to that is 'no'.

A 'survived' Morton side will have the 7th-9th largest budget in next season's Championship (part-time Arbroath's budget stretching further) and a three week lag on all competitors, while also turning over the club behind the scenes. It is a recipe for a 13/14 style disaster that the club would never recover from. 

The Rae's tarnishing whatever is left of their legacy on their way out the door and focusing on a serious rebuild in the tier below is not that devastating blow at all, not even remotely. 

I don’t completely disagree with your take on the situation, however it’s quite a natural instinct for footballers to fight their hearts out to avoid relegation, no matter the politics or otherwise. I don’t see your preferred outcome being matched by anyone within the club. You’ve also disregarded my point that we need to strengthen in attacking areas, which as you say is the reason we couldn’t beat Alloa or Arbroath.

If you compare the rebuild required, not in standard of player required but in the balance of the team, with Celtic for instance; they’re talking about all aspects of the team - goalkeeper, defence, midfield and attack. With us attacking mid and upfront is where we need an upgrade for Championship level. This shouldn’t be beyond the remit of the new regime. We all seem to agree that Hopkin’s recruitment caused untold damage, so we need to get rid of the worst of those signings as first priority. There’s a fair number of them , and if they’re as bad as we say they are, then it shouldn’t be too difficult to replace them with a lower number of significantly better players. 

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7 hours ago, DreamOakTree said:

I don’t completely disagree with your take on the situation, however it’s quite a natural instinct for footballers to fight their hearts out to avoid relegation, no matter the politics or otherwise. I don’t see your preferred outcome being matched by anyone within the club. You’ve also disregarded my point that we need to strengthen in attacking areas, which as you say is the reason we couldn’t beat Alloa or Arbroath.

If you compare the rebuild required, not in standard of player required but in the balance of the team, with Celtic for instance; they’re talking about all aspects of the team - goalkeeper, defence, midfield and attack. With us attacking mid and upfront is where we need an upgrade for Championship level. This shouldn’t be beyond the remit of the new regime. We all seem to agree that Hopkin’s recruitment caused untold damage, so we need to get rid of the worst of those signings as first priority. There’s a fair number of them , and if they’re as bad as we say they are, then it shouldn’t be too difficult to replace them with a lower number of significantly better players. 

We might be talking about the whole team if we can't keep a hold of any of them. And minus a few I wouldn't be that bothered.

There's a storm on the horizon

And for that I can't see the sun

For I'll keep a waiting on the pavement

For the ice cream van to come

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7 hours ago, Mr.Blue said:

We might be talking about the whole team if we can't keep a hold of any of them. And minus a few I wouldn't be that bothered.

That’s true, and could be dependent on what division we’re in. I was thinking of this as the basis of a new team:

                         McAdam

Ledger     Fjortoft     McLean    Strapp

                          Jacobs

perhaps squad places can also be found for the likes of Lyon and Colville, as they should benefit from having a decent focal point ahead of them.

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29 minutes ago, DreamOakTree said:

That’s true, and could be dependent on what division we’re in. I was thinking of this as the basis of a new team:

                         McAdam

Ledger     Fjortoft     McLean    Strapp

                          Jacobs

perhaps squad places can also be found for the likes of Lyon and Colville, as they should benefit from having a decent focal point ahead of them.

No perhaps about it - Lyon and Colville are two of our best players, and it has been ridiculous to see them spending so much time on the bench with the likes of Blues and Omar ahead of them in the team selection lottery.  Mclean has been OK this season but he's well past his best so might be an idea to look to upgrade that position.  I'd also keep Nesbitt despite his inconsistency.  Orsi & Muirhead can follow McGinty out the door, Oliver maybe worth keeping on if we're going to be playing 2 up front.

We do of course have to remember that some of those players might not want to stay at Morton.

"Any nation given the opportunity to regain its national sovereignty and which then rejects it is so far beneath contempt that it is hard to put words to it."

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16 minutes ago, Alibi said:

No perhaps about it - Lyon and Colville are two of our best players, and it has been ridiculous to see them spending so much time on the bench with the likes of Blues and Omar ahead of them in the team selection lottery.  Mclean has been OK this season but he's well past his best so might be an idea to look to upgrade that position.  I'd also keep Nesbitt despite his inconsistency.  Orsi & Muirhead can follow McGinty out the door, Oliver maybe worth keeping on if we're going to be playing 2 up front.

We do of course have to remember that some of those players might not want to stay at Morton.

It’s difficult to quantify how much a proper centre forward would rejuvenate the likes of Lyon and Colville. My guess is it would improve their performances and consistency levels significantly, and therefore their chances of regular selection.

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This happens every time we have a crap season. While games are on, people will have no problem getting rid of the lot of them. But give them four days without actually watching football and they invariably end up wanting to keep the entire squad minus one or two. Once Montrose dispatch of us, a few days later after the dust settles I fully expect someone to say that Robbie Muirhead "could do a job" at League One level.

McLean has had an alright year overall but he's done, it would be madness to keep him. Oliver can't score goals at this level and his overall play is alright but he should be released and if it gets to four weeks before the season starts and we need a forward, maybe he can come in for a trial.

On the other hand, you'd certainly hope that "squad places can be found" for Reece Lyon, given that he's got a year left on his contract.

1 minute ago, DreamOakTree said:

It’s difficult to quantify how much a proper centre forward would rejuvenate the likes of Lyon and Colville. My guess is it would improve their performances and consistency levels significantly, and therefore their chances of regular selection.

Given that they've not exactly been pinging inch-perfect through balls for the past few months, I'd say "not very much." I don't think they're bad players by any means but it's equally untrue to say that they've been regularly dishing up chances on a plate.

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4 hours ago, TRVMP said:

Given that they've not exactly been pinging inch-perfect through balls for the past few months, I'd say "not very much." I don't think they're bad players by any means but it's equally untrue to say that they've been regularly dishing up chances on a plate.

Hence “perhaps squad places can be found for the likes of Lyon and Colville”. If they’d been “regularly dishing up chances on a plate” I’d have them in the team as first picks!

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Lyon's under contract and as the club is committed to the youth system it seems impossible that they'd try to move him on, so unless he asks to leave or someone comes in for him, he's staying.

Why would you keep a non-first choice player? It makes no sense at all at this level of football. All it does is narrow your options. A retained list should only be for people who are going to play far more often than not. If you do the opposite you end up guys like Cammy Blues (and Luca Colville, for that matter) and Cameron Salkeld* staying in a bloated squad.

Anyone who's not a nailed-on starter for next season should be given a painting of a Spitfire and escorted from the building. In the offchance that we need regens to warm the bench we'll maybe give them a text mid-July if they're not already registered for St. Cadoc's by then. We're not Chelsea, we can't run a 25-man squad and we don't need that level of "depth" in a season where we won't even play 45 games.

We need to be absolutely ruthless about this. Nobody, nobody who isn't starting 80%+ should be retained without first weighing up all available options. 

Here's my preferred "retained" list, for what it's worth (with the usual caveats - don't know their wages, don't know if they even want to drop down a level, don't know about other offers etc.)

Ledger
Fjoertoft
Jacobs
McAdams

And those under contract are as follows:

Strapp (2022)
Lyon (2022)
McGrattan (2022)
Easdale (2022)
Wylie (2022)
Garrity (2022)
Hynes (2023)

Literally everyone else, up to and including Nesbitt, needs to be on "don't call us, we'll call you" protocol. They have manifestly failed to create chances or score goals, Colville as much as anyone else. I'm sure some of them will come good elsewhere, and for some of them (such as Nesbitt and Orsi) I truly wish it had gone differently as they seem to be genuinely nice guys who enjoy their football and try their best. But the season's been what it is, they haven't been up to it, and it's high time we stop finding space on the bench for such players.

*edit: Counting the minutes until someone says "he could do a job at League One" or "well who would you sign, then?". He's had two seasons to impress, he's been alright at times but that's not good enough. No point in saving a space on the bench. Gone.

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1 hour ago, TRVMP said:

Lyon's under contract and as the club is committed to the youth system it seems impossible that they'd try to move him on, so unless he asks to leave or someone comes in for him, he's staying.

Why would you keep a non-first choice player? It makes no sense at all at this level of football. All it does is narrow your options. A retained list should only be for people who are going to play far more often than not. If you do the opposite you end up guys like Cammy Blues (and Luca Colville, for that matter) and Cameron Salkeld* staying in a bloated squad.

Anyone who's not a nailed-on starter for next season should be given a painting of a Spitfire and escorted from the building. In the offchance that we need regens to warm the bench we'll maybe give them a text mid-July if they're not already registered for St. Cadoc's by then. We're not Chelsea, we can't run a 25-man squad and we don't need that level of "depth" in a season where we won't even play 45 games.

We need to be absolutely ruthless about this. Nobody, nobody who isn't starting 80%+ should be retained without first weighing up all available options. 

Here's my preferred "retained" list, for what it's worth (with the usual caveats - don't know their wages, don't know if they even want to drop down a level, don't know about other offers etc.)

Ledger
Fjoertoft
Jacobs
McAdams

And those under contract are as follows:

Strapp (2022)
Lyon (2022)
McGrattan (2022)
Easdale (2022)
Wylie (2022)
Garrity (2022)
Hynes (2023)

Literally everyone else, up to and including Nesbitt, needs to be on "don't call us, we'll call you" protocol. They have manifestly failed to create chances or score goals, Colville as much as anyone else. I'm sure some of them will come good elsewhere, and for some of them (such as Nesbitt and Orsi) I truly wish it had gone differently as they seem to be genuinely nice guys who enjoy their football and try their best. But the season's been what it is, they haven't been up to it, and it's high time we stop finding space on the bench for such players.

*edit: Counting the minutes until someone says "he could do a job at League One" or "well who would you sign, then?". He's had two seasons to impress, he's been alright at times but that's not good enough. No point in saving a space on the bench. Gone.

This. Barring the 4 players you have mentioned and the players under contract I wouldn't bat an eyelid if every other player was shown the door. There absolutely are better players out there and it's upto the club to have the infrastructure on place to be able to identify these players. There's no reason why at the very least we shouldn't be looking to pick the better players from the likes of Alloa, Arbroath and Queens and the better performing teams in league 1. I imagine there'll be questions asked about this but that's really our level at the moment. 

As for some of our current squad doing a job in league 1. Sorry they've had their chance and blown it. 

There's a storm on the horizon

And for that I can't see the sun

For I'll keep a waiting on the pavement

For the ice cream van to come

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That’s close to my preferred retained “back six” if you exclude McLean, which is okay by me given his advancing years and the fact he’s out of contract. I’m encouraged to know those that are out of contract according to your list also include McGinty, Blues, Salkeld, Orsi and Muirhead (has Omar gone or out on loan?). That gives an incoming manager a fighting chance to build a decent squad. 

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1 hour ago, TRVMP said:

Lyon's under contract and as the club is committed to the youth system it seems impossible that they'd try to move him on, so unless he asks to leave or someone comes in for him, he's staying.

Why would you keep a non-first choice player? It makes no sense at all at this level of football. All it does is narrow your options. A retained list should only be for people who are going to play far more often than not. If you do the opposite you end up guys like Cammy Blues (and Luca Colville, for that matter) and Cameron Salkeld* staying in a bloated squad.

Anyone who's not a nailed-on starter for next season should be given a painting of a Spitfire and escorted from the building. In the offchance that we need regens to warm the bench we'll maybe give them a text mid-July if they're not already registered for St. Cadoc's by then. We're not Chelsea, we can't run a 25-man squad and we don't need that level of "depth" in a season where we won't even play 45 games.

We need to be absolutely ruthless about this. Nobody, nobody who isn't starting 80%+ should be retained without first weighing up all available options. 

Here's my preferred "retained" list, for what it's worth (with the usual caveats - don't know their wages, don't know if they even want to drop down a level, don't know about other offers etc.)

Ledger
Fjoertoft
Jacobs
McAdams

And those under contract are as follows:

Strapp (2022)
Lyon (2022)
McGrattan (2022)
Easdale (2022)
Wylie (2022)
Garrity (2022)
Hynes (2023)

Literally everyone else, up to and including Nesbitt, needs to be on "don't call us, we'll call you" protocol. They have manifestly failed to create chances or score goals, Colville as much as anyone else. I'm sure some of them will come good elsewhere, and for some of them (such as Nesbitt and Orsi) I truly wish it had gone differently as they seem to be genuinely nice guys who enjoy their football and try their best. But the season's been what it is, they haven't been up to it, and it's high time we stop finding space on the bench for such players.

*edit: Counting the minutes until someone says "he could do a job at League One" or "well who would you sign, then?". He's had two seasons to impress, he's been alright at times but that's not good enough. No point in saving a space on the bench. Gone.

Count the minutes no more!

McAdams, Hynes*, Strapp, Fjortoft, Ledger, Jacobs, Lyon, Colville, Nesbitt, McGuffie, Oliver. There's the pieces to add to for our League One squad (if required). I'm maybe tempted not to keep all of the four latter most players on that list, but overall I'm confident in my League One retention list. (*Meh but seems like he has a lifetime contract or something)

Just look at the players I've dumped in my imaginary post-season: McLean, McGinty, Blues, Omar, Salkeld, Orsi, Muirhead, Wallace, Millar, Johnson, Butler. With teammates like that, who needs opponents?! 

We are perfectly capable of looking competent against the likes of Motherwell and Hearts, but we have no competent strikers. I wouldn't lose sleep over losing any of our players, tbh, but those are good League One signings in my view. Add a couple of good League one strikers to that squad and we're already well on our way.

The likes of Orsi, Salkeld, and Muirhead are more than welcome to join their former teammates in Dumbarton's bid for League Two survival next season. 

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The fact that every senior player can be punted makes it the perfect time to bin the solely full-time status that is getting us nowhere. Dealing exclusively at the bottom of the full-time market and trying to entice jobbers with £250-400 a week is an exercise in failure - not least when stupid wee outfits like Queens' Park, Kelty and quite possibly Cove will be moving upwards in the pecking order for gutless mercenaries this summer. 

We have been paying so-called professionals to train all week and yet they still can't bundle the ball into a net from two yards out on a regular basis. Enough. It's time to go for a hybrid model with part-time seniors and full-time training being reserved for younger players who might benefit from the dedicated physical training time. Once you start whinging about your wife and weans the 'get a real job' policy should be automatically enforced and then we can take our fair pick from that market instead.

The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before..

 

So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are

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As much as I agree that we have had at least two generations of full time players taking the piss out of Morton and achieving little in return, the problem which I foresee with your proposed full time positions being reserved only for younger players is that it may fall foul of The Equality Scotland Act 2010 on the grounds of age discrimination.

ETA: a possible way around this would be to offer full time or part time contracts on a case-by-case basis.

*insert signature here*

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35 minutes ago, SpoonTon said:

Count the minutes no more!

McAdams, Hynes*, Strapp, Fjortoft, Ledger, Jacobs, Lyon, Colville, Nesbitt, McGuffie, Oliver. There's the pieces to add to for our League One squad (if required). I'm maybe tempted not to keep all of the four latter most players on that list, but overall I'm confident in my League One retention list. (*Meh but seems like he has a lifetime contract or something)

Just look at the players I've dumped in my imaginary post-season: McLean, McGinty, Blues, Omar, Salkeld, Orsi, Muirhead, Wallace, Millar, Johnson, Butler. With teammates like that, who needs opponents?! 

We are perfectly capable of looking competent against the likes of Motherwell and Hearts, but we have no competent strikers. I wouldn't lose sleep over losing any of our players, tbh, but those are good League One signings in my view. Add a couple of good League one strikers to that squad and we're already well on our way.

The likes of Orsi, Salkeld, and Muirhead are more than welcome to join their former teammates in Dumbarton's bid for League Two survival next season. 

I can see a borderline case for each of the extra players you cite being included in a League One squad. What I can't see is the urgency in locking them in do early. If it gets to mid-July and we desperately need an option, yeah, sure. But why restrict yourself like that? Is Luca Colville a bad player? No. Is he so good that we must lock him in now? Is he so good that we can't envision ever replacing him with the resources we have? No. That's how I'm approaching this. Or to put it another way - if you put 20 lower Championship/upper League One midfielders in a pile, would he be in the top quartile? Probably not. So what's the hurry here? Why restrict your options unless you are absolutely damn certain you're not going to do significantly worse? 

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21 minutes ago, TRVMP said:

I can see a borderline case for each of the extra players you cite being included in a League One squad. What I can't see is the urgency in locking them in do early. If it gets to mid-July and we desperately need an option, yeah, sure. But why restrict yourself like that? Is Luca Colville a bad player? No. Is he so good that we must lock him in now? Is he so good that we can't envision ever replacing him with the resources we have? No. That's how I'm approaching this. Or to put it another way - if you put 20 lower Championship/upper League One midfielders in a pile, would he be in the top quartile? Probably not. So what's the hurry here? Why restrict your options unless you are absolutely damn certain you're not going to do significantly worse? 

I get that, and it's the reason why I'm slightly reluctant to keep  McGuffie and Colville as well as Oliver and Nesbitt in this scenario - and I think that's even more important if we avoid relegation. 

But I think there is actually significant risk in not finding enough better options than those. I'd retain those players because I think they'd be good for us for challenging in the top half of League One - it's those players who kept us competitive at the lower end of the league this year. We're not a complete disaster of a Championship team - we have clear weaknesses which need addressed. 

The key will be bringing in strikers who can score, defenders who can compliment what we already have, and a midfielder/winger or two who can be a bit more direct. 

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8 hours ago, SpoonTon said:

I get that, and it's the reason why I'm slightly reluctant to keep  McGuffie and Colville as well as Oliver and Nesbitt in this scenario - and I think that's even more important if we avoid relegation. 

But I think there is actually significant risk in not finding enough better options than those. I'd retain those players because I think they'd be good for us for challenging in the top half of League One - it's those players who kept us competitive at the lower end of the league this year. We're not a complete disaster of a Championship team - we have clear weaknesses which need addressed. 

The key will be bringing in strikers who can score, defenders who can compliment what we already have, and a midfielder/winger or two who can be a bit more direct. 

Would not keep any of the three. Oliver has had two failed chances here and failed at QotS in between. We haven't had a decent forward this year and need to replace.

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1 hour ago, astuartm said:

Would not keep any of the three. Oliver has had two failed chances here and failed at QotS in between. We haven't had a decent forward this year and need to replace.

I can respect that view. I'm certainly not going to make a passionate case for keeping them. I do, though, think that some of those players would do very well at League One level. 

 

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15 hours ago, SpoonTon said:

I get that, and it's the reason why I'm slightly reluctant to keep  McGuffie and Colville as well as Oliver and Nesbitt in this scenario - and I think that's even more important if we avoid relegation. 

But I think there is actually significant risk in not finding enough better options than those. I'd retain those players because I think they'd be good for us for challenging in the top half of League One - it's those players who kept us competitive at the lower end of the league this year. We're not a complete disaster of a Championship team - we have clear weaknesses which need addressed. 

The key will be bringing in strikers who can score, defenders who can compliment what we already have, and a midfielder/winger or two who can be a bit more direct. 

Well, agree to disagree. I do see the case for going for known quantities but I don't believe any of the names you've mentioned, even Nesbitt, to be tough to replace.

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