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3 minutes ago, vikingTON said:

It isn't. It's 1511 after 9 games. In 2019-20 it was 1607. 

Yeah, that average is significantly inflated by the Killie game when they brought a couple of thousand.

But, once again, I'm not claiming, and never have done, that the crowds we have now are abnormally low. I really have no idea where you're getting that from and why you're clinging on to it.

And I never said that us ending up in League 2 was inevitable (another straw man alert!), but it is in my opinion highly possible under the tenure of MCT, 

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10 minutes ago, Cet Homme Charmant said:

Yeah, that average is significantly inflated by the Killie game when they brought a couple of thousand.

The average is not 'inflated' because we play higher profile games every season. The away supports of the 1980s second tier were not less significant than Hamilton, Inverness etc. now, so that is just special pleading for the fact that the core support was lower 35 years ago than it is today. But will apparently disappear in the near future like the snow off of a dyke this afternoon, for reasons that you have failed to explain.

Edited by vikingTON
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The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before..

 

So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are

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4 hours ago, Cet Homme Charmant said:

I firmly believe if we're stuck mid-table in League 2 for a few seasons, then crowds will gradually dwindle to a few hundred.

 

6 minutes ago, Cet Homme Charmant said:

And I never said that us ending up in League 2 was inevitable (another straw man alert!), but it is in my opinion highly possible under the tenure of MCT, 

The midtable in League Two premise is set out above, as justification for your ridiculous 'crowds of a few hundred' future that you have made as the reason why a Guid Business Man needs to take over the reins of the club again. Not only is this outcome not inevitable, it is also not even remotely likely - as your own handpicked example of Airdrie demonstrates. 

The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before..

 

So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are

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2 hours ago, Jazzer said:

Pricing needs to be addressed then. There should be more done in nurseries and schools to gain the support of young people and try and stop them becoming Old Firm fans. 

This is entirely correct. Greater Greenock is a large and largely self-contained catchment area, with only the two bigots and GMFC vying for the market. There is no serious threat posed by neighbouring clubs due to fierce intra/intercounty rivalries. All things considered, this is a decent starting point for an effective professional football club. 

To ensure a lasting and increasing core support, GMFC has to focus on giving the young people of Greater Greenock the opportunity to go to actual games on a Saturday afternoon. Make it cheap, make it easy and don't put a posse of ridiculous high-vis wanker stewards on them to chase them around and threaten banning them from the ground. If Morton can get even a few percent of every schoolage group at games then it will retain enough of them to retain and hopefully grow the core support. Whether we are playing in the Premiership or the West of Scotland league, that same basic principle applies. 

At that age, it really does not matter what league they are watching. My first game in a regular run was at home to East Stirling in November 2002. It was not chosen because of the glamour of Third Division opposition or even the promises of Douglas Rae, that were not yet leading to demonstrable success. You get them in the ground first and they will find what attracts them to going back for themselves. 

Edited by vikingTON

The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before..

 

So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are

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A great example of how to run a football club is Sevilla in La Liga. Albeit on a much larger scale but they were in financial ruins in the late 90’s early 00’s and were in the second tier of Spanish football. What they did was put in a place a solid structure focused on youth and clever scouting/use of the transfer market as well as clever appointments in key roles ie manager and director of football. From there they got promoted, improved year on year, unearthed rough diamonds, produced fantastic youngsters and eventually developed into a top side which went on to win many titles. 
 

Morton need to do something similar. There is no reason why Morton cannot compete for promotion to the top flight if of course they are run correctly. 

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2 hours ago, vikingTON said:

 

The midtable in League Two premise is set out above, as justification for your ridiculous 'crowds of a few hundred' future that you have made as the reason why a Guid Business Man needs to take over the reins of the club again. Not only is this outcome not inevitable, it is also not even remotely likely - as your own handpicked example of Airdrie demonstrates. 

Just because I believe something, it doesn't mean that it's inevitable. I'm not that arrogant. 

Edited by Cet Homme Charmant
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2 hours ago, vikingTON said:

The average is not 'inflated' because we play higher profile games every season. The away supports of the 1980s second tier were not less significant than Hamilton, Inverness etc. now, so that is just special pleading for the fact that the core support was lower 35 years ago than it is today. But will apparently disappear in the near future like the snow off of a dyke this afternoon, for reasons that you have failed to explain.

Yet again, you seem to be obsessed with the (completely incorrect) premise that I think our crowds now are abnormally low. Why you're clinging to that argument is baffling, to be honest.

But, if the future I predict materialises (and no, it's not inevitable, and I never said it was), then after a few seasons of mid-table mediocracy in the lower leagues, IMO the fanbase will decrease to the hundreds.

Edited by Cet Homme Charmant
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Even if we can't appoint a 'sporting director' like Monchi (bearing in mind the role of managers in Spain is very different from Scotland) the overall point is a good one. Obviously, yes, budget is the key deciding factor in long-term success. But it's not the only factor. If it was, every league table would match budget every season, and it doesn't. Big clubs with high incomes and relatively low debt can find themselves at a low ebb for a long time - see Falkirk for a minor example, see Leeds (post-CVA) for a major one. Meanwhile smaller clubs with shrewd investment can do well. Getafe in Spain are another example - they have a tiny fanbase but have very good commercial income and a better TV deal than many bigger clubs because the chairman is a ruthless guy.

It is, of course, very very difficult, but the first step is to actually want it, then the second step is to actually try it. By appointing Imrie, they're appointing a guy who - so far - gives every indication of wanting it. Whether or not it pays off is another matter. But I'm glad we're finally taking that first step towards defying the odds.

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16 hours ago, vikingTON said:

1) How would the club get any more irrelevant to the town than it is currently? The club's commercial presence is non-existent while buses traipse up to the bigot domes every week. Stinking out the second tier as we have been doing for years does not convince anyone of our relevance. It simply adds 'shite, negative, losing, football' to the list of reasons why folk aren't going to go to Cappielow. 

So long as the club survives, it can recover from any position quite quickly under competent leadership. In the meantime, even if the club is in the lower leagues, there is a lot that it can still do to grow its supporter base. Reducing gate prices and making a more concerted effort at getting kids to the game and enjoying their day - instead of having a dozen loser stewards surrounding them at all times - would be a start. 

 

11 hours ago, vikingTON said:

This is entirely correct. Greater Greenock is a large and largely self-contained catchment area, with only the two bigots and GMFC vying for the market. There is no serious threat posed by neighbouring clubs due to fierce intra/intercounty rivalries. All things considered, this is a decent starting point for an effective professional football club. 

To ensure a lasting and increasing core support, GMFC has to focus on giving the young people of Greater Greenock the opportunity to go to actual games on a Saturday afternoon. Make it cheap, make it easy and don't put a posse of ridiculous high-vis wanker stewards on them to chase them around and threaten banning them from the ground. If Morton can get even a few percent of every schoolage group at games then it will retain enough of them to retain and hopefully grow the core support. Whether we are playing in the Premiership or the West of Scotland league, that same basic principle applies. 

At that age, it really does not matter what league they are watching. My first game in a regular run was at home to East Stirling in November 2002. It was not chosen because of the glamour of Third Division opposition or even the promises of Douglas Rae, that were not yet leading to demonstrable success. You get them in the ground first and they will find what attracts them to going back for themselves. 

The bits in bold, that kind of patter is grim by your standards. 

I'd expect that from someone like Alibi or AyrshireTon, but not you.  You are either letting your standards slip or you are deliberately aiming to become a Perma-roaster with a chip on your shoulder about Scotland's two largest clubs.  Which is it?

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2 hours ago, capitanus said:

 

The bits in bold, that kind of patter is grim by your standards. 

I'd expect that from someone like Alibi or AyrshireTon, but not you.  You are either letting your standards slip or you are deliberately aiming to become a Perma-roaster with a chip on your shoulder about Scotland's two largest clubs.  Which is it?

Both of the 2 clubs to which you refer have dined at the top table for the last century, funded by a long-standing mutual exploitation of the sectarianism that divides Scotland (although it’s not quite as bad nowadays). They both still have elements that adhere to the old divide, although it does now seem to be far worse in the red white and blue side. Not all OF fans are bigots of course, but the bigots are generally the loudest, stuck in their ways. The political unionism of a large section of the Rangers support was possibly a reason the 2014 indyref2 was lost & even nowadays the biggest roasters on social media have profiles that demonstrate that their football team’s “culture” dictates their political beliefs.

One of the good things about supporting Morton is that most of our support don’t care about 17th century history. I have no idea what religion, if any, my fellow supporters are. That is actually a very strong base on which to build a community asset like Morton. Maybe we could also lose the slight tinge of racism and other isms that remain, although that is more a legacy of our society than a football issue. We need to ensure Morton is an inclusive club under our ownership.

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"Any nation given the opportunity to regain its national sovereignty and which then rejects it is so far beneath contempt that it is hard to put words to it."

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I’m probably a good example. Boyhood Rangers fan but as I grew older (and wiser) the whole sectarian element put me off the Old Firm. It is a stain on Scottish society and if we are being completely honest it has not improved despite many people wishing you to believe that it has. The “what school did you go to?”  question is still asked to this day. Now with the benefit of hindsight I wish I had grown up as a Morton fan.

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4 hours ago, Alibi said:

Both of the 2 clubs to which you refer have dined at the top table for the last century, funded by a long-standing mutual exploitation of the sectarianism that divides Scotland (although it’s not quite as bad nowadays). They both still have elements that adhere to the old divide, although it does now seem to be far worse in the red white and blue side. Not all OF fans are bigots of course, but the bigots are generally the loudest, stuck in their ways. The political unionism of a large section of the Rangers support was possibly a reason the 2014 indyref2 was lost & even nowadays the biggest roasters on social media have profiles that demonstrate that their football team’s “culture” dictates their political beliefs.

One of the good things about supporting Morton is that most of our support don’t care about 17th century history. I have no idea what religion, if any, my fellow supporters are. That is actually a very strong base on which to build a community asset like Morton. Maybe we could also lose the slight tinge of racism and other isms that remain, although that is more a legacy of our society than a football issue. We need to ensure Morton is an inclusive club under our ownership.

Aye, we all know the background of the countries two biggest clubs and we know about the prevailing attitudes of large sections of their support.  My point to VikingTon is that he whole 'bigot brothers' type patter is absolute mince and they type of patter that you and a few others would come out with.  All those impressionable youngsters from across Inverclyde are entitled to watch or support who they want, and if they think that Morelos, Ryan Kent, McGregor or Jota is a bit more deserving of their support than some of the Flotsam & Jetsam jobbers which have washed upon Cappielow in recent years, sexual deviants et all, then they shouldn't be labelled 'bigots' for it.

As for '2014 indyref2', I know that is still a sore point for someone of your 'persuasion', but it wasn't lost as you stated.  The separatist side failed would be a more correct summation.

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On 12/26/2021 at 7:58 PM, Cet Homme Charmant said:

 

But, if the future I predict materialises (and no, it's not inevitable, and I never said it was), then after a few seasons of mid-table mediocracy in the lower leagues, IMO the fanbase will decrease to the hundreds.

And yet there's still not one shred of evidence to justify why you think that would be the case, as the core support of the club is significantly higher than that (we're already down to it) and can be maintained independently of league performance. 

That your opinion is braying nonsense is really not my problem. 

On 12/27/2021 at 6:17 AM, capitanus said:

 

The bits in bold, that kind of patter is grim by your standards. 

I'd expect that from someone like Alibi or AyrshireTon, but not you.  You are either letting your standards slip or you are deliberately aiming to become a Perma-roaster with a chip on your shoulder about Scotland's two largest clubs.  Which is it?

 

20 hours ago, capitanus said:

Aye, we all know the background of the countries two biggest clubs and we know about the prevailing attitudes of large sections of their support.  My point to VikingTon is that he whole 'bigot brothers' type patter is absolute mince and they type of patter that you and a few others would come out with.  All those impressionable youngsters from across Inverclyde are entitled to watch or support who they want, and if they think that Morelos, Ryan Kent, McGregor or Jota is a bit more deserving of their support than some of the Flotsam & Jetsam jobbers which have washed upon Cappielow in recent years, sexual deviants et all, then they shouldn't be labelled 'bigots' for it.

As for '2014 indyref2', I know that is still a sore point for someone of your 'persuasion', but it wasn't lost as you stated.  The separatist side failed would be a more correct summation.

^^^ scrambling for relevance

The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before..

 

So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are

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On 12/26/2021 at 6:09 PM, vikingTON said:

Incorrect. Morton's average attendance for 1985-86 was just 1255, which is around 20% lower than now. This was between seasons spent in the top flight of Scottish football and recorded in that bastion of relevancy known as the Scottish second tier. 

Funnily enough, when results got better, the same fairweather crowds returned as before. The core support however has evidently not changed substantially at all - and so is unlikely to collapse in the event of relegation under MCT either. 

I get the point you are trying to make but 85-86 was a season where we spent the first 5 months plunging to the bottom of the 1st Division and then the rest of the season slowly climbing to safety.

Maybe worth bearing in mind that was an era when most of the team were part-time (our top scorer in 86-87 trained with QoS for part of the week), with a few full time players (Wylie for one), although we did have a squad big enough to support a reserve team. We could also sell players on back then.

Agree with the point you made elsewhere about the away support swelling the attendances.

And for @capitanus - they're not all bigots. A few of them are gloryhunters. 😉 

McGhee needs some support, there's no-one backing him up.
Hayes playing it forward, Bell being forced to do it all alone, now forward from Marr, here's Ritchie, still Andy Ritchie, look at the control...

That is a marvellous goal from Andy Ritchie. Twenty minutes on the clock and Morton's supporters come alive. A goal which epitomises the control, the arrogance, the cheek of Andy Ritchie.

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2 hours ago, vikingTON said:

And yet there's still not one shred of evidence to justify why you think that would be the case, as the core support of the club is significantly higher than that (we're already down to it) and can be maintained independently of league performance.

Well pardon me for expressing an opinion on a football discussion board 😂

And, how can I provide evidence for something that hasn't happened yet? Tell you what, we'll see where we are in 5 years time (if MCT sill have a majority shareholding by then), and we'll see who's right. 

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57 minutes ago, Cet Homme Charmant said:

Well pardon me for expressing an opinion on a football discussion board 😂

And, how can I provide evidence for something that hasn't happened yet? Tell you what, we'll see where we are in 5 years time (if MCT sill have a majority shareholding by then), and we'll see who's right. 

I could express an opinion that Morton would have an average crowd of 10,000 every week if we played in the top flight, but in the absence of any credible evidence (historical attendance data at that level; relevant comparative data to similar-sized clubs) then that opinion could be safely filed in the bin where it belongs. 

The same applies to your utter nonsense claims about MCT being an existential threat to the club and *gums bumping against each other* 'four hunner every week like Elgin' hot take as well. The reasons why this prediction is utterly ridiculous have been set out very clearly. Your chosen comparison - Airdrie - did not even come close to matching the scenario that you have illustrated. That's your problem, not mine.

You really should have stopped digging on this one days ago, and taken your 'It's My Opinion Though!' wailing to Facebook where the other ill-informed Karens hang about. 

Edited by vikingTON

The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before..

 

So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are

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8 hours ago, vikingTON said:

And yet there's still not one shred of evidence to justify why you think that would be the case, as the core support of the club is significantly higher than that (we're already down to it) and can be maintained independently of league performance. 

That your opinion is braying nonsense is really not my problem. 

 

^^^ scrambling for relevance

:1eye:

:1eye:

Merry Christmas, champ. 😛

 

 

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