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3 minutes ago, Cet Homme Charmant said:

By playing in front of a few hundred in League 2. 

Why would it be playing in front of a few hundred? If you think that people are only going to Cappielow because of our current glamour ties against the likes of Hamilton and Inverness, then you are sorely mistaken. 

Home attendance is not correlated to our league status outside of the top flight. We are already down to the core support and there is no reason why the club cannot expand that core support over time regardless of the league it is playing in. 

The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before..

 

So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are

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3 minutes ago, Cet Homme Charmant said:

Absolutely nothing.

But neither should it be an automatic assumption they would make the same mistakes as Dougie did.

There's no guarantees in life, but I think our chances of thriving and progressing with MCT at the helm is zero, and with the other option I'm suggesting there's at least a fighting chance. 

There is also a significant chance that the other option will actually prove to be the existential threat to the club that you wrongly assigned to MCT - by the time-honoured 'businessman in football' model of running up unsustainable debt and walking away from it/dying from a Lucozade overdose.

Dundee went through this exact experience when their fan-owned group sold its stake to Calum 'C'lum' Melville, who made the usual set of Walter Mitty promises as a 'hard-headed and successful businessman'. It ended in a second administration and CVA. There is no reason to assume that GMFC would survive a similar outcome. 

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The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before..

 

So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are

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8 minutes ago, vikingTON said:

Why would it be playing in front of a few hundred? If you think that people are only going to Cappielow because of our current glamour ties against the likes of Hamilton and Inverness, then you are sorely mistaken. 

Home attendance is not correlated to our league status outside of the top flight. We are already down to the core support and there is no reason why the club cannot expand that core support over time regardless of the league it is playing in. 

I firmly believe if we're stuck mid-table in League 2 for a few seasons, then crowds will gradually dwindle to a few hundred.

4 minutes ago, vikingTON said:

There is also a significant chance that the other option will actually prove to be the existential threat to the club that you wrongly assigned to MCT

I already clarified what I meant with the poor word choice in my first post. 

Edited by Cet Homme Charmant
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9 minutes ago, Cet Homme Charmant said:

I firmly believe if we're stuck mid-table in League 2 for a few seasons, then crowds will gradually dwindle to a few hundred.

I asked you why crowds would dwindle to a few hundred - you have yet to justify the reasons for your 'firm belief' in this. What is sustaining home crowds of comfortably double this total at the moment, that would necessarily disappear at a lower level? Cameron Blues' silky skills? The inspirational management of Gus McPherson? 

That's leaving aside your quite ridiculous qualification about being 'midtable in League Two for a few seasons', as if this is the only or even most likely scenario. 

Edited by vikingTON

The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before..

 

So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are

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9 minutes ago, vikingTON said:

I asked you why crowds would dwindle to a few hundred - you have yet to justify the reasons for your 'firm belief' in this. What is sustaining home crowds of comfortably double this total at the moment, that would necessarily disappear at a lower level? Cameron Blues' silky skills? The inspirational management of Gus McPherson? 

Because no matter how miserable it is struggling in the Championship, it will be multiplied struggling in the lower leagues. I do admire your optimism that we'll keep a large part of our current fanbase if we're struggling week-in, week-out and against the likes of Annan Athletic and Elgin City, but I just don't share it. 

Edited by Cet Homme Charmant
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A few years ago, suggesting that Arbroath would have four figures' worth of ST holders would have got you laughed at. These things are temporary. Not hugely worth worrying about. Yes, league placing correlates with crowd size, but there's a lower limit that at Morton is probably in the 7-800 range. Not massively different from where we are now.

There's really no point worrying about the what-ifs of a spell in the lower leagues because as VT says the club's survival should be assured through simple economics. We can't borrow so we can't go into debt, therefore those with an eye on the ground can't have it.

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1 hour ago, Cet Homme Charmant said:

Because no matter how miserable it is struggling in the Championship, it will be multiplied struggling in the lower leagues.

Once again - where is the supporting evidence for this? 

We have recorded one fucking home league win in the league in the calendar year. Our goals per game over last season and this is equally wretched - and fans are also being asked to pay up to £20 a pop for the 'Championship standard football' on offer. This is the worst of all possible worlds in terms of maintaining a core support.

The thing that decimates a club's core support is not actually playing in a lower tier: it is time spent circling the drain for years before relegation to that lower tier. The club can do many things to retain and grow its core support regardless of the league it is playing in. 

The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before..

 

So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are

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2 hours ago, Mr.Blue said:

I still think the Easedales will take over at some point. To be honest at this stage I don't think it would be a bad thing.  

I do feel for MCT. They have the right intentions but at the moment are not up to the task. I think given time everything will settle down but I don't like the idea of my club being their guinea pig while the new owners carry on firefighting through the early days. I genuinely do not see a light at the end of the tunnel at the moment and I am concerned about the club on and off the park. We need to start getting the basics right and can only do that by establishing and developing an infrastructure and processes that promotes organisation, clarity and a clear vision. Accountability is key to. At the moment the club is verging on a faceless entity which is not how it should be.

There's no inherent reason why MCT cannot be a transparent and accountable organisation though, and no reason to expect any accountability at all if the Easdales or any other businessmen took charge at the club. 

We're in danger of throwing the baby out with the bathwater here. The current MCT leadership have no divine right to hold office and their power base is actually far more precarious than either the Raes or their placemen like Iron Man. If we want the club's direction to change then it will be changed, either with the cooperation of the incumbent MCT officials or against it. 

The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before..

 

So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are

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12 minutes ago, vikingTON said:

Once again - where is the supporting evidence for this? 

Well it's quite difficult to provide evidence for something that hasn't happened yet, but it's a pretty much universal effect that attendances will generally decrease when teams are relegated, especially if there are multiple relegations in a relatively short period of time.  Maybe not always in the first season when fans will be expecting an immediate bounce back, but if the decline is not addressed then it's almost inevitable that crowds will start to dwindle. 

An example is Airdrie, in 70s and 80s they were actually quite successful (cup finals and playing in Europe)  and could get a few thousand at most games. Now they're a perma-diddy club playing in front of about 500. That's where I see us in 5 years time. 

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3 minutes ago, Jazzer said:

Morton have a lot of potential there’s no doubt about that. I think if you had a decent team on the park and the club being run well off of it that you could get 2,000 plus crowds. 

We struggled to get above 2000 even when we were playing attractive football and challenging for promotion with Thistle about 10 years ago (except for the Thistle games).

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Pricing needs to be addressed then. There should be more done in nurseries and schools to gain the support of young people and try and stop them becoming Old Firm fans. Imagine if even half the people in buses heading to Glasgow instead went to the east end of Greenock for their football. 

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DDFR never ran the club as a business he invested 'emotionally' as a fan. It would have been interesting to see where we could have ended up, if someone with a footballing brain bigger than their ego  (on this basis Iron Man is discounted) was given the same amount of money and time to make us a success - looking back it was a wasted opportunity. It is accepted MCT are operating in much more trying circumstances but they are really not helping themselves as they continually fail to do the basics. If you need a fan survey to know the club has historically under-performed on maximising revenue opportunities you should just return your blazer and go back to the shadows. The seaside leagues beckon unless the new manager can perform miracles.

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35 minutes ago, Cet Homme Charmant said:

Well it's quite difficult to provide evidence for something that hasn't happened yet, but it's a pretty much universal effect that attendances will generally decrease when teams are relegated, especially if there are multiple relegations in a relatively short period of time.  Maybe not always in the first season when fans will be expecting an immediate bounce back, but if the decline is not addressed then it's almost inevitable that crowds will start to dwindle. 

Attendances decrease in a lower league because of the reduced number of away fans. That is why when a club that drops out of the top flight their attendances decrease significantly. 

There is no such rule for home attendances. You can take a look through this club's historic attendances and you will find that the death spirals that take place are in the second tier, being utter dung. The classic case of this is the early 1990s. 

The club stinking out the entire Scottish league setup in the 1930s and early 1960s also did not permanently destroy the club's core support. There is nothing to support things being any different now. 

44 minutes ago, Cet Homme Charmant said:

An example is Airdrie, in 70s and 80s they were actually quite successful (cup finals and playing in Europe)  and could get a few thousand at most games. Now they're a perma-diddy club playing in front of about 500. That's where I see us in 5 years time. 

Airdrie in the 1980s is your best example? Right - because literally nothing else could account for this change. A move out of an old ground in the middle of town, to a massive white elephant in a housing scheme for example. The administration and liquidation of the club in 2002. But yes, it was definitely that relegation from Division 1 in 2010 that explains where they are now.

And then we get to the clincher. Despite you pointing to Airdrie as your ideal example of what we could become, they have never actually experienced the 'midtable in League Two' scenario that you have painted for Morton. They have never even played in the fourth tier of Scottish football, and were actually within 180 minutes of directly replacing your beloved, Rae-owned GMFC in May. 

For you to use Airdrie as an example only further demonstrates that your fatalistic scenario of Morton playing in front of 400 fans in the middle of the fourth tier is utterly ridiculous. 

The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before..

 

So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are

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46 minutes ago, Cet Homme Charmant said:

We struggled to get above 2000 even when we were playing attractive football and challenging for promotion with Thistle about 10 years ago (except for the Thistle games).

Quiz question: What do you think was Morton's average home attendance 35 years ago (1986) - back in the Hovis-themed good old days that can never return if we get relegated under MCT? 

The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before..

 

So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are

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14 minutes ago, vikingTON said:

Quiz question: What do you think was Morton's average home attendance 35 years ago (1986) - back in the Hovis-themed good old days that can never return if we get relegated under MCT? 

For me and I suspect CHC the "Hovis-themed good old days" was the last '70s into the '80s. If my memory serves me well 1986 was not one of our better years. I do, however, agree the core support remains remarkably robust/stable albeit at a level where is difficult to justify full-time football - how fat would some of the current squad be if they didn't train hard every day of the week?

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44 minutes ago, vikingTON said:

Quiz question: What do you think was Morton's average home attendance 35 years ago (1986) - back in the Hovis-themed good old days that can never return if we get relegated under MCT? 

About the same as now. Straw man alert! Where did I say attendances in the Hovis themed good old days were higher than now or 10 years ago? 

In my 40 odd years of following the Ton the only periods when we've consistently had average attendances above 2000 were late 70s-to-early 80s, and the early years of the Rae era. 

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6 minutes ago, Cet Homme Charmant said:

About the same as now.

Incorrect. Morton's average attendance for 1985-86 was just 1255, which is around 20% lower than now. This was between seasons spent in the top flight of Scottish football and recorded in that bastion of relevancy known as the Scottish second tier. 

Funnily enough, when results got better, the same fairweather crowds returned as before. The core support however has evidently not changed substantially at all - and so is unlikely to collapse in the event of relegation under MCT either. 

Edited by vikingTON

The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before..

 

So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are

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23 minutes ago, vikingTON said:

Incorrect. Morton's average attendance for 1985-86 was just 1255, which is around 20% lower than now. This was between seasons spent in the top flight of Scottish football and recorded in that bastion of relevancy known as the Scottish second tier. 

Funnily enough, when results got better, the same fairweather crowds returned as before. The core support however has evidently not changed substantially at all - and so is unlikely to collapse in the event of relegation under MCT either. 

If we exclude the covid restricted attendance games, I think this season's average will be very close to 1250, judging by the season so far. Here's hoping Dougie turns things round and proves me wrong!

But in any case, your depiction of me as being someone who harps on about the 'good old days' when Cappielow was filled to the rafters is far from the truth and disingenuous. Never have I said that, I've been a fan throughout all lean times, and we've had many of them in my lifetime. 

If you're the fact based analyst expert you claim to be there should be no need to resort to the straw man fallacy. :)  

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Edited by Cet Homme Charmant
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10 minutes ago, Cet Homme Charmant said:

If we exclude the covid restricted attendance games, I think this season's average will be very close to 1250, judging by the season so far. Here's hoping Dougie turns things round and proves me wrong!

But in any case, your depiction of me as being someone who harps on about the 'good old days' when Cappielow was filled to the rafters is far from the truth and disingenuous. Never have I said that, I've been a fan throughout all lean times, and we've had many of them in my lifetime. 

If you're the fact based analyst expert you claim to be there should be no need to resort to the straw man argument. :) 

It isn't. It's 1511 after 9 games. In 2019-20 it was 1607. 

The total disconnect between your imagination of the present, your ridiculous projection of the inevitable future (400 fans in League Two, just like Airdrie!) and all the factual evidence has been presented to you. After first dealing with your equally ridiculous claim that there was an existential threat to the club posed by a bunch of committee men who have as much independent spending power as a family in a Haitian slum. 

It has been a comprehensive walkthrough exercise in fail.   

Edited by vikingTON

The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before..

 

So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are

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