TRVMP Posted July 6, 2021 Share Posted July 6, 2021 The wording on the membership T&Cs has completely changed. See this sample from November last year: Membership – Morton Club Together (archive.org) "Monthly payments will run for 24 months, after which no further financial commitment from contributors is required or expected." It is absolutely explicit that monthly payments will run for that length of time. It doesn't explicitly say that they will stop, but it's very heavily implied. (It doesn't rule out people staying on to donate more if they wish, of course, but does say that it's not expected.) In my opinion it's very sharp practice to continue charging people who signed up under these pledge conditions unless they opt out. For people who sign up today, alright, it's pretty transparent. But people who signed up for a 24-month term should be subject to a 24-month term with any further payment being purely on an opt-in basis. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HamCam Posted July 6, 2021 Share Posted July 6, 2021 30 minutes ago, TRVMP said: The wording on the membership T&Cs has completely changed. See this sample from November last year: Membership – Morton Club Together (archive.org) "Monthly payments will run for 24 months, after which no further financial commitment from contributors is required or expected." It is absolutely explicit that monthly payments will run for that length of time. It doesn't explicitly say that they will stop, but it's very heavily implied. (It doesn't rule out people staying on to donate more if they wish, of course, but does say that it's not expected.) In my opinion it's very sharp practice to continue charging people who signed up under these pledge conditions unless they opt out. For people who sign up today, alright, it's pretty transparent. But people who signed up for a 24-month term should be subject to a 24-month term with any further payment being purely on an opt-in basis. Although it referenced a 24-month term, I thought it also allowed the option of stopping during the period? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealTonKid Posted July 6, 2021 Share Posted July 6, 2021 It's a bit cheeky of them to change the T&Cs to allow them carte blanche to keep taking money from fans' bank accounts. That wasn't the original mandate when a lot of us signed up pre-takeover. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfever Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 5 hours ago, TRVMP said: The wording on the membership T&Cs has completely changed. See this sample from November last year: Membership – Morton Club Together (archive.org) "Monthly payments will run for 24 months, after which no further financial commitment from contributors is required or expected." It is absolutely explicit that monthly payments will run for that length of time. It doesn't explicitly say that they will stop, but it's very heavily implied. (It doesn't rule out people staying on to donate more if they wish, of course, but does say that it's not expected.) In my opinion it's very sharp practice to continue charging people who signed up under these pledge conditions unless they opt out. For people who sign up today, alright, it's pretty transparent. But people who signed up for a 24-month term should be subject to a 24-month term with any further payment being purely on an opt-in basis. ...perhaps because the point of the project has changed so the nature of what the donations are for has changed? In terms of the unsigned emails, my assumption has always been it's not signed because there isn't (or doesn't appear to be) someone in a specific leadership role whose name can be attached to official communications, like a Chairperson for example. Based on the 'about' section of the new MCT website there are teams in place but nobody has been appointed to specific roles (or if they have it's not been declared on the website), perhaps that will change/improve when Directors are appointed and specific roles assigned? I can't say that not having an email signed by anyone has given me any cause for concern nor makes me think they are ignoring the fanbase, especially when one of the MCT 'communications team' runs this forum and will be fully aware of the feedback regularly given about this issue. 3 What Carew can do with a ball, I can do with an orange Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toby Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 39 minutes ago, hayfever said: ...perhaps because the point of the project has changed so the nature of what the donations are for has changed? In terms of the unsigned emails, my assumption has always been it's not signed because there isn't (or doesn't appear to be) someone in a specific leadership role whose name can be attached to official communications, like a Chairperson for example. Based on the 'about' section of the new MCT website there are teams in place but nobody has been appointed to specific roles (or if they have it's not been declared on the website), perhaps that will change/improve when Directors are appointed and specific roles assigned? I can't say that not having an email signed by anyone has given me any cause for concern nor makes me think they are ignoring the fanbase, especially when one of the MCT 'communications team' runs this forum and will be fully aware of the feedback regularly given about this issue. I’m inclined to think that the emboldened point is naive in the extreme. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post TRVMP Posted July 7, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted July 7, 2021 41 minutes ago, hayfever said: ...perhaps because the point of the project has changed so the nature of what the donations are for has changed? In terms of the unsigned emails, my assumption has always been it's not signed because there isn't (or doesn't appear to be) someone in a specific leadership role whose name can be attached to official communications, like a Chairperson for example. Based on the 'about' section of the new MCT website there are teams in place but nobody has been appointed to specific roles (or if they have it's not been declared on the website), perhaps that will change/improve when Directors are appointed and specific roles assigned? I can't say that not having an email signed by anyone has given me any cause for concern nor makes me think they are ignoring the fanbase, especially when one of the MCT 'communications team' runs this forum and will be fully aware of the feedback regularly given about this issue. I know you're gasping to get a blazer and tie but this starting things off with this huffy "... perhaps" as if you're explaining cows to Dougal McGuire is really off-putting. You've done absolutely nothing with or for MCT to merit anything approaching the amount of condescension you're showing here. Can you approach this discussion with some humility? Because if you can't, you at least need to get your facts right. The initial 240 quid payment - most people splitting it into a tenner a month for two years - is not a donation. Once that payment is made it is a fee for full membership. 240 pounds, then as now, entitles one to MCT membership, meaning voting rights. (At least that was back when they gave mention of voting rights.) Anything above that 240 - or below it in the case that someone donates 230 then decides not to continue for their last month - can be accurately termed a donation (although MCT's own term is the slightly less brass-necked "contributions.") Trying to rewrite history to call this a 'donation' - with the 'project' being something that just 'changes', like it's the weather - isn't going to wash. This was never supposed a money-in-the-bucket enterprise where you just shut up and bring a friend. That 240 quid was supposed to be something that gets you a stake in the club and - admittedly at arm's length - a say in the decision-making process at MCT, not just a donation. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfever Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 3 hours ago, Toby said: I’m inclined to think that the emboldened point is naive in the extreme. In what way? 2 What Carew can do with a ball, I can do with an orange Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfever Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 3 hours ago, TRVMP said: I know you're gasping to get a blazer and tie but this starting things off with this huffy "... perhaps" as if you're explaining cows to Dougal McGuire is really off-putting. You've done absolutely nothing with or for MCT to merit anything approaching the amount of condescension you're showing here. Can you approach this discussion with some humility? Because if you can't, you at least need to get your facts right. The initial 240 quid payment - most people splitting it into a tenner a month for two years - is not a donation. Once that payment is made it is a fee for full membership. 240 pounds, then as now, entitles one to MCT membership, meaning voting rights. (At least that was back when they gave mention of voting rights.) Anything above that 240 - or below it in the case that someone donates 230 then decides not to continue for their last month - can be accurately termed a donation (although MCT's own term is the slightly less brass-necked "contributions.") Trying to rewrite history to call this a 'donation' - with the 'project' being something that just 'changes', like it's the weather - isn't going to wash. This was never supposed a money-in-the-bucket enterprise where you just shut up and bring a friend. That 240 quid was supposed to be something that gets you a stake in the club and - admittedly at arm's length - a say in the decision-making process at MCT, not just a donation. Well, if you think I'm condescending now just you wait until I get my blazer and tie (and, hopefully, pocket square). 3 What Carew can do with a ball, I can do with an orange Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post dunning1874 Posted July 7, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted July 7, 2021 (edited) In the few days the forum was down alone we had: People who signed up to pay for season tickets by direct debit receiving notifications that their direct debits have been cancelled. In some cases people had already had one payment taken without having received any communication or confirmation of the season ticket being purchased in the first place. MCT's response was a simple "don't worry about it, we'll sort it" without expanding on when people will receive an update or apologising for it happening in the first place. A story in the Tele yesterday revealed that the takeover (scheduled date as announced by MCT: June 1st) won't go ahead before our first game on July 10th, meaning we will be starting the first season under fan ownership still owned by Golden Casket. We have no idea who among the MCT directors is running the club. An MCT statement on the matter was then released which did offer an apology and say the legalities are continuing, they'll update us soon both on the progress of this and on who board members will be. People's initial subscriptions to MCT began expiring, as the direct debits were always set up to run until this month initially. Prior to those notifications being received people had no communication on how to renew this, if we even could, or frankly why people should want to considering how well the summer is going. They then send an email after those notifications are received, saying that if people don't contact MCT to opt out payments will continue, despite already having been told they've stopped. This is what I mean about first impressions being important. There may be mitigating circumstances for any or all of these issues, some of them might be outwith MCT's control, but along with the lack of communication they combine to create a pretty terrible picture that makes it near enough impossible to give the benefit of the doubt even if we're desperately trying to find reasons to do so. Regardless of whether the issues themselves are down to third parties and outwith their control, communicating transparently about them isn't. They should be apologising for the season ticket issue and giving assurances it won't happen again. They should have frequent statements out regarding the now ridiculously long delay to the takeover (36 days and counting!) even if they've nothing to update on other than offering another apology, and they should be doing it off their own back rather than being bounced into it because the Tele are more concerned with updating fans than they are. They should have informed both their members and the wider support who's actually running the club long ago. They should have had information out before direct debits for members expired explaining how people could opt-in to renewing themselves, being clear that from that point it becomes open ended and rolls on, rather than taking the questionable decision of automatically changing it themselves. They need to fix these communication issues immediately before the bad first impression starts doing serious damage to their credibility, because this summer can only be described as shambolic so far. Edited July 7, 2021 by dunning1874 9 Brian Wake my Lord, Brian Wake Brian Wake my Lord, Brian Wake Brian Wake my Lord, Brian Wake Oh Lord, Brian Wake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post vikingTON Posted July 7, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted July 7, 2021 8 hours ago, hayfever said: I can't say that not having an email signed by anyone has given me any cause for concern nor makes me think they are ignoring the fanbase, especially when one of the MCT 'communications team' runs this forum and will be fully aware of the feedback regularly given about this issue. Whereas MCT not genuflecting before your offer to stick your oar in where nobody asked for it was treated as a scandalous dereliction. 4 hours ago, hayfever said: Well, if you think I'm condescending now just you wait until I get my blazer and tie (and, hopefully, pocket square). I suspect you'll have as much luck in a members' vote as Chris McEleny had running for SNP deputy leader/candidate for Inverclyde. 1 2 The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before.. So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toby Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 6 hours ago, hayfever said: In what way? Animal Farm. Everyone is equal, but some are more equal than others. Do you really think that there are folk on that leadership team that are completely happy with how the main players are operating? I’m not going to join the dots for you, and wouldn’t want to stick any of them in it, but if you think the frustrations in the running of MCT is exclusive to a couple of loud mouths on a forum, you’re living in a fantasy world. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_M Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 1 hour ago, Toby said: Animal Farm. Everyone is equal, but some are more equal than others. Do you really think that there are folk on that leadership team that are completely happy with how the main players are operating? I’m not going to join the dots for you, and wouldn’t want to stick any of them in it, but if you think the frustrations in the running of MCT is exclusive to a couple of loud mouths on a forum, you’re living in a fantasy world. There's a guy, who was listed on the old MCT site as being part of the leadership team who no longer is. He seems to be one of the most critical on Twitter on various things that have happened, such as Lithgow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRVMP Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 9 hours ago, hayfever said: Well, if you think I'm condescending now just you wait until I get my blazer and tie (and, hopefully, pocket square). Nothing to say on the substantive points about the membership fee and the scope of the project? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartTon Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 Latest email from MCT is signed off by an actual name. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfever Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 9 hours ago, TRVMP said: Nothing to say on the substantive points about the membership fee and the scope of the project? I think it's a good idea, I hope it works, and I'll continue to support it. I don't have the same concerns as others but that may change in time of course. I think I can help and I've applied to be an Associate Director. 1 What Carew can do with a ball, I can do with an orange Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRVMP Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 Just now, hayfever said: I think it's a good idea, I hope it works, and I'll continue to support it. I don't have the same concerns as others but that may change in time of course. I think I can help and I've applied to be an Associate Director. Neither of these addresses anything to do with donations or the scope of the project changing. Fair play for getting involved nonetheless, usually it's better to be on the inside looking out in order to affect change. (Or not to affect change if you see no cause for concern.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capitanus Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 I'm enjoying this thread. Carry on. *insert signature here* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capitanus Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 Two years later, a fanfare of publicity for the guy with the fag packet idea of 'ivry buddy chips in munny', some of the more sensible Morton supporters out there choosing to part with cash to relieve the lesser Rae's of what was rightfully their responsibilities, a cavalcade of half-jaked former players giving their endorsement to 'Morton supporters buying shares', a website which promoted buying shares without anyone other than the MCT organisation ever getting to hold any shares, a board/committee/whatever that reads like the cast of Ben Hur. What have we learned? Other than some young kid with a Drum is deemed more important than the former ticket office guy at *checks his notes* Exeter City; a shite idea was more successful in gaining control of Morton than the GMST; and that whoever wants to control Morton give the least amount of consideration to the actual punters. i'm not concerned about anything. I'm really not. 1 1 *insert signature here* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Blue Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 On 7/7/2021 at 8:22 AM, dunning1874 said: In the few days the forum was down alone we had: People who signed up to pay for season tickets by direct debit receiving notifications that their direct debits have been cancelled. In some cases people had already had one payment taken without having received any communication or confirmation of the season ticket being purchased in the first place. MCT's response was a simple "don't worry about it, we'll sort it" without expanding on when people will receive an update or apologising for it happening in the first place. A story in the Tele yesterday revealed that the takeover (scheduled date as announced by MCT: June 1st) won't go ahead before our first game on July 10th, meaning we will be starting the first season under fan ownership still owned by Golden Casket. We have no idea who among the MCT directors is running the club. An MCT statement on the matter was then released which did offer an apology and say the legalities are continuing, they'll update us soon both on the progress of this and on who board members will be. People's initial subscriptions to MCT began expiring, as the direct debits were always set up to run until this month initially. Prior to those notifications being received people had no communication on how to renew this, if we even could, or frankly why people should want to considering how well the summer is going. They then send an email after those notifications are received, saying that if people don't contact MCT to opt out payments will continue, despite already having been told they've stopped. This is what I mean about first impressions being important. There may be mitigating circumstances for any or all of these issues, some of them might be outwith MCT's control, but along with the lack of communication they combine to create a pretty terrible picture that makes it near enough impossible to give the benefit of the doubt even if we're desperately trying to find reasons to do so. Regardless of whether the issues themselves are down to third parties and outwith their control, communicating transparently about them isn't. They should be apologising for the season ticket issue and giving assurances it won't happen again. They should have frequent statements out regarding the now ridiculously long delay to the takeover (36 days and counting!) even if they've nothing to update on other than offering another apology, and they should be doing it off their own back rather than being bounced into it because the Tele are more concerned with updating fans than they are. They should have informed both their members and the wider support who's actually running the club long ago. They should have had information out before direct debits for members expired explaining how people could opt-in to renewing themselves, being clear that from that point it becomes open ended and rolls on, rather than taking the questionable decision of automatically changing it themselves. They need to fix these communication issues immediately before the bad first impression starts doing serious damage to their credibility, because this summer can only be described as shambolic so far. A good post. I'm all for allowing MCT a lot of grace in this period of change but there's certain things that really need to be addressed quickly and the lines of communication are a pretty easy one imo. They have spoken about open communication and transparency and although there has been some improvement I'd say there's not been enough. It wouldn't take much to have a weekly update from MCT members and the manager/ players. Not looking for war and peace but regular updates on YouTube channel or even a blog would be a good start. There's a storm on the horizon And for that I can't see the sun For I'll keep a waiting on the pavement For the ice cream van to come Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tubes Posted July 10, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted July 10, 2021 The silence is absolutely deafening. It has been confirmed that MCT are doing the day to day with Crawford well relieved of his duties despite the legal hold ups. It’s extremely poor the way things have started off, very little communication, we’ve no idea who’s doing what at the club, it’s all very weirdly faceless which for a club that’s being ran by fans is bizarre. It’s harming the potential of the project with many folk skeptical and unsure on whether to get involved or not. Worryingly people may look to withdraw contributions if there is no transparency. Update the fans, the people who are putting their money in so the whole thing works. It’s ripping the piss when a spokesperson comes out last month talking about clear communication and we’re getting fuck all. Sort it. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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