capitanus Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 There is more than just the options proposed which could be a suitable solution to this issue. I'm surprised that the legal experts involved with MCT, or even our own legal expert, Professor Dork McChrisendale hasn't pointed to an alternative remedy. *insert signature here* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONofmemories Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 28 minutes ago, Ton4life said: Agree MCT have collected our money and used it to right off debt as agreed with GC. Now GC have showed their hand and this is their ultimate route to maximum capitalisation. Dougie's legacy is top business opportunist and triumphing Hugh Scott. In other words he looked like our saviour but turned out to be worse than HS. We need to play hardball and get the Inverclyde Council fully on board, by blocking any change of use for the land. Bottom line is this is not going to be cheap and what ever deal we accept the GC group must be fully removed in the deal. While money is currently at it's best rates for years, if MCT can raise the capital, it will take the a significant part of the MCT funds to buy the stadium which also needs significant investment in the next five years to provide a reasonable fan facility. While this is the direction I would like us to take I am also concerned that the playing budget will have to be reduced and could result in us ending up in the seaside leagues for the next 20 years. Maybe as said above we should go for the nuclear option and start again. Must mention the Goverment now looks like the £500,000 grant has not help Morton but strengthened GC options. I really develop hatred for anyone but this family %$£@!!!! The bit in bold. Nonsense. He might've been many things, but worse than HS is not one of them. TIME FOR CHANGE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cet Homme Charmant Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 (edited) 48 minutes ago, Ton4life said: We need to play hardball and get the Inverclyde Council fully on board, by blocking any change of use for the land. As I mentioned before, the current land designation for recreational use may actually work against us in the long term. Although the current designation of recreational use substantially deflates the value of the land and will certainly deter the HSs of the world from trying to make a make a quick buck by selling it on for redevelopment, it may actually be attractive for speculative Property Developers to take a longer term punt on it. They buy now cheap, then sit on it for a few years as Cappielow gradually becomes more and more derelict. By then the original reasons for the recreational use designation will no longer valid as GMFC as tenants would have been been turfed out years earlier, in which case there would be a lot of pressure on IDC to re-designate the use of land for development, especially if a concrete proposal was put in front of them that brought jobs and/or investment to the town. Granted there are if and buts in the above scenario, and while it may not be a probable outcome, it would I believe be an entirely possible one, and an additional concern in any option where GC retain ownership of Cappielow. Unless of course watertight legal guarantees were made that GC could not sell Cappielow in perpetuity, but I'd be astonished if GC would sign up to such a permanent commitment. They obviously want to hold on to Cappielow for a reason, and as a sleeping asset for capitalisation in the future if needed, is the only plausible explanation I can think of. Same goes for the 1 pound per week rent. Unless that's also guaranteed in perpetuity that's also a concern, because if it isn't there's nothing to stop them from charging commercial rent at some point in the future. The MCT guys are obviously not daft and I'm sure they also share these concerns and are getting proper expert legal advice, but I just don't have a good feeling about this at all. Edited February 15, 2021 by Cet Homme Charmant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealTonKid Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 52 minutes ago, Jamie_M said: Sick of this. This IS Dougie's legacy. Oops, should have italicised the word legacy. We’re singing from the same hymn sheet, but those less informed, still view Dougie as being a saviour of the club, with his name printed on the inside of the jersey and displayed on the street signs across the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post dunning1874 Posted February 15, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted February 15, 2021 19 minutes ago, TONofmemories said: The bit in bold. Nonsense. He might've been many things, but worse than HS is not one of them. Aye. Simplistic, but I think you can sum them up as follows: Hugh Scott - actively wanted to kill the club Douglas Rae - wanted what was best for the club but his egomania prevented him from seeing he was hurting it Crawford Rae/Golden Casket in general - don't give a shit whether they hurt it or not and are currently showing their willingness to do so 4 Brian Wake my Lord, Brian Wake Brian Wake my Lord, Brian Wake Brian Wake my Lord, Brian Wake Oh Lord, Brian Wake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LargsTON Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 5 hours ago, Scott said: Would be interested to see what happened if MCT told Crawford and GC to GTF and just pulled out. This is my preference. "CORNBEEF IS A BELLEND" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post TRVMP Posted February 15, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted February 15, 2021 6 hours ago, Cet Homme Charmant said: Unless there are legally binding guarantees in perpetuity that Cappielow will not be sold or the debt will not be called in, the two options currently on the table aren't just poor, they're potentially disastrous. We'll have the sword of Damocles hanging over us until the end of our days, I'm continually baffled by MCT's naivete here. Have they not noticed how many times the goalposts have shifted in GC's favor with regards to the debt? If there's no memorandum of understanding that locks GC into a path of action, with no clear get-out clause for MCT should GC fail to "honor" it, what will prevent GC from baiting MCT into a big shiny announcement about how an agreement has been reached, only to change it at the last second? It's a tough balance to strike but MCT's "statements" need to be far more open-ended than they are. Perhaps it's time to make Crawford lay out the terms, so that he can own it when he goes back on it. (Not that this will stop him, of course, but it'll at least open a few more eyes.) Let's remember that the car park wasn't mentioned in the original July 2020 announcement - only Cappielow was, with the understanding that it was (ha ha ha ha ha!) to prevent the vultures from taking it if Morton fell into bother. Of course they'll now say the car park was implied - was it really? Who knows? In the absence of anything in writing, MCT need to stop promising things that GC could take away from them tomorrow. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRVMP Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 10 minutes ago, LargsTON said: This is my preference. Same and I said as much in the survey. MCT Consultation Survey – Morton Club Together On the 'pick option 1 or 2' question, I didn't select either and just filled in the comment box. MCT have been given a choice between having the club's only physical asset - and one of only two valuable assets, along with SPFL membership - taken from it; or not having the debt written off (something that even the Raes' most fervent critics never imagined they'd do prior to yesterday.) Neither of these choices is in any way acceptable in their current form. The first one might have been acceptable if there was a clear path to ownership for significantly less than market value, but as far as I'm concerned, GC are doing two things by introducing this second "option": poisoning the well away from anything in MCT's favor, and showing that they have no regard for the future of Morton. These are not acceptable positions to negotiate with and as such negotiations need to end immediately.q 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LargsTON Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 1 minute ago, TRVMP said: Same and I said as much in the survey. MCT Consultation Survey – Morton Club Together On the 'pick option 1 or 2' question, I didn't select either and just filled in the comment box. I did exactly the same. "CORNBEEF IS A BELLEND" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lordyton Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 Shambles As Per.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_M Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 MCT bit Crawford's hand off at the first option last year even though it represented poor value, leaving them no wriggle room when they went back to negotiate to have the stadium remain. Sticking £2m back on for the stadium but keeping the car park is a stretch I didn't even think they would go to. Shysters. Chancers. GTF. And if MCT continue to bend over and be shafted, they are proving to be a not fit for purpose alternative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRVMP Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 13 minutes ago, Jamie_M said: MCT bit Crawford's hand off at the first option last year even though it represented poor value, leaving them no wriggle room when they went back to negotiate to have the stadium remain. Sticking £2m back on for the stadium but keeping the car park is a stretch I didn't even think they would go to. Shysters. Chancers. GTF. And if MCT continue to bend over and be shafted, they are proving to be a not fit for purpose alternative. I never found the Raes to be that personable or enjoyable to spend time with but they seem to enchant anyone they get on the club's board. It's quite impressive, it has to be said. They have MCT eating out of their hand. That takes ability. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cet Homme Charmant Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 3 minutes ago, TRVMP said: I never found the Raes to be that personable or enjoyable to spend time with but they seem to enchant anyone they get on the club's board. It's quite impressive, it has to be said. They have MCT eating out of their hand. That takes ability. As I mentioned earlier, as it seems they're the only show in town at the minute, I'm not sure that MCT fully realise just how strong their negotiating position is. They should be the ones calling the shots, not tugging the forelock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ton4life Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 I was always concerned that MCT appeared when GC were looking to plug their losses and seemed to find a willing partner who in turn sold this to the fan base. Starting to think I have been sending GC £240/year when I thought I was helping to keep Morton going. Unless MCT step up to the mark soon and demonstrate leadership and an understanding of property ownership and management this is going tits up and GC are taking my cash with them. I understand MCT are a voluntary group and their chairman has had major health issues but surely their risk management consultants would have identified such weaknesses and had a strategy to deal with concluding this buyout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9 Strathblane Crescent Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 3 hours ago, TRVMP said: Let's remember that the car park wasn't mentioned in the original July 2020 announcement - only Cappielow was, with the understanding that it was (ha ha ha ha ha!) to prevent the vultures from taking it if Morton fell into bother. Of course they'll now say the car park was implied - was it really? Who knows? The car park is owned by GMFC although Dougie once tried to say differently when it suited him. So it would be implied. It didn't cost a great deal when it was bought as, and I think it was some Scottish Gov agency that was selling it, couldn't find a buyer as the land is contaminated having been a coal yard in days gone by. The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRVMP Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 9 minutes ago, 9 Strathblane Crescent said: The car park is owned by GMFC although Dougie once tried to say differently when it suited him. So it would be implied. It didn't cost a great deal when it was bought as, and I think it was some Scottish Gov agency that was selling it, couldn't find a buyer as the land is contaminated having been a coal yard in days gone by. Does GMFC Property Ltd actually own *anything?* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Alibi Posted February 16, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted February 16, 2021 I don't know any of the MCT people personally and I don't know what experience they have of arranging this sort of deal, but it looks to me as if GC are just coming out with random figures. There is no account taken of the actual finances of GMFC - for example if Morton suddenly received a windfall of (say) £500k, how would that affect the deal? Would GC end up with that money or would it remain (as intended by the Scottish Government) with the fan-owned GMFC next season. Morton's finances are presumably not reflected by a static pile of cash; they change over time. The £2 million debt figure seems to be a rather convenient ball park figure that we are just supposed to accept. Is it founded in reality or in creative accounting? Has any attempt been made by MCT to negotiate the £2 million "liability" downwards? There is probably a level of debt that could be financed by the support to allow the ground to be purchased over a period of time, but I suspect £2 million is too big a sum. On the face of it, a loan at an interest rate of zero in perpetuity is great, provided that the in perpetuity bit can be made legally binding, but can that be done, or even stipulated as being for a period of 50 years (by which time inflation will have reduced it significantly? Clearly GC want out, and it would be best if a mutually agreeable exit strategy could be found. I'm getting the impression that what they want most out of this is to keep the car park, which is a very developable asset although I'm not sure they even realise that Maybe MCT should try asking them to include the car park site in the £2 million mortgage deal & see the response - if MCT had that asset under their control, it would open up the possibility of a mixed development that could generate an income - maybe GC would agree to a profit-sharing deal for mutual benefit. I do think that those who are wanting GC simply to hand over Morton plus the ground for nothing are perhaps being a bit unrealistic - however the sum being talked about seems to include a fair amount of money spent over the last 20 years that hasn't actually added any value to the club - like buying a new car and after 20 years trying to sell it for twice what you paid for it because over your period of ownership you've spent thousands of £££ on fuel. 6 "Any nation given the opportunity to regain its national sovereignty and which then rejects it is so far beneath contempt that it is hard to put words to it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tubes Posted February 16, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted February 16, 2021 500k was written off at the initial stage when MCT got involved and for every 100k contributed GC would write off a further 500k. MCT hit that 100k in December 2020, so there’s another 500k off the debt (remember the debt that would never be called in, and isn’t something to worry fans) So we are paying off a debt that doesn’t need paid off if we go on Crawfords word. Clearly it’s to be paid off as that’s what we are doing and we have knocked 1m off it since MCT came in but we’re still sitting at 2million? It’s a fucking joke, and I’m shocked that 2m is even being discussed when we’ve paid off 1m of it already. He is effectively putting hee haw in, has had the grant of 500k from the government paid aswell so I fully expect a hard line from MCT. Get him told. He would be getting an absolute hounding if fans were allowed into games. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 57 minutes ago, Tubes said: He would be getting an absolute hounding if fans were allowed into games. I miss a lot of things right now, but I really do miss a good toxic atmosphere at Cappielow. He's so fortunate there's no supporters in this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post vikingTON Posted February 16, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted February 16, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Alibi said: I do think that those who are wanting GC simply to hand over Morton plus the ground for nothing are perhaps being a bit unrealistic - however the sum being talked about seems to include a fair amount of money spent over the last 20 years that hasn't actually added any value to the club - like buying a new car and after 20 years trying to sell it for twice what you paid for it because over your period of ownership you've spent thousands of £££ on fuel. If GC keep the car park land then they're not handing over the club and ground 'for nothing'. Getting that asset is their reward for decades of mismanagement, whether it is on their books proper or hived off into another family-controlled holding company. Let's not kid ourselves into thinking that the Raes have a responsibility to their hedge fund backers - all assets are going into the same pot. That said, if GC had opened the discussion of option 2 with a figure of £500k outstanding debt, then I'd have been willing to hold my nose and support a negotiated deal from that starting point. £20k over 25 years for example would not be too high a price to get shot of them for good and secure the club's main asset. That they have the brass neck to ask for £2 million only further confirms that they are not acting in good faith, and therefore we need to be clear of their influence all the sooner. Neither option is acceptable after their conduct over the past twelve months and neither provides any credible security for the future of the club. Edited February 16, 2021 by vikingTON 4 The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before.. So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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