Bye Bye Allan Moore

[forza ton]

Any new manager will simply be asked to gradually manage our decline into the Second Division. Success, even relative 'success' of having four years in the first, comes in cycles, we are heading down not this year, but within three.

Yep, that seems to be where we are at the moment.

[Rossco]

Here we go.

Same old pish about getting rid of the manager.

 

Who are we going to get in? Where is the money coming from to pay off yet another manager given that we have no money for players?

 

 

This is just a kneejerk reaction after a heavy defeat in a cup competition by a team sitting 3rd in the Premier league.

 

Nobody expected us to go away to Motherwell & win was possibly the worst draw we could have got after the Old Firm.

[Tonsilitis]

I left at half time as I was soaked and freezing as well as humiliated.

 

Motherwell are presently the best team outside of the old firm and they were just too powerful for us. I expect their wage budget will be maybe three times ours

 

Having said that, although Moore has not had the budget of previous managers, there is no doubt that our defence is just not good enough. Its not been helped by the injury to MCaffrey but it was obvious at the start of the season that we needed fullbacks. We let a better left back than anything we have now in McKinlay go. We have not had a decent right back since Collins in his prime.

 

Part time looms, followed by relegation in a season or two to take a permanent place in the second division.

[Guest David Edwards]

Yes I would like to see a better manager at Cappielow, and better players too. But what we need first and foremost are new ideas and new investment. And the ideas have to be good and the investment sound. All of that most likely means we will need a new owner, an owner preferably with a heart full of Morton's best interests and essentially, the head to realise them.

 

The problem, as ever, is where to find one.

[Colkitto]

Yes I would like to see a better manager at Cappielow, and better players too. But what we need first and foremost are new ideas and new investment. And the ideas have to be good and the investment sound. All of that most likely means we will need a new owner, an owner preferably with a heart full of Morton's best interests and essentially, the head to realise them.

 

The problem, as ever, is where to find one.

 

 

Let's face facts there is no white knight thats' going to come in and invest in Morton. Football in general is in dire straights. Morton are not alone in this financial plight.

Dougie Rae has put in more than we probably could have expetced him to. Where we go from next season onwards is anyone's guess.

 

I would imagine Tonsilitis comments are much closer to the truth than I would like to admit. I can see part-time football next season and Morton clinging onto 1st division survival. Probably 2nd division football looms as well.

 

I would guess QotS, Partick, Raith will be in the same boat as us. With Hamilton, Falkirk, Livingston not far behind

[Guest David Edwards]

Let's face facts there is no white knight thats' going to come in and invest in Morton. Football in general is in dire straights. Morton are not alone in this financial plight.

Dougie Rae has put in more than we probably could have expetced him to. Where we go from next season onwards is anyone's guess.

 

I would imagine Tonsilitis comments are much closer to the truth than I would like to admit. I can see part-time football next season and Morton clinging onto 1st division survival. Probably 2nd division football looms as well.

 

I would guess QotS, Partick, Raith will be in the same boat as us. With Hamilton, Falkirk, Livingston not far behind

 

Yes Col, I think I am facing that fact. But without new ideas and new investment, I don't see things getting any better.

[Colkitto]

Yes Col, I think I am facing that fact. But without new ideas and new investment, I don't see things getting any better.

 

 

Yip, totally agree.

[SpoonTon]

Here we go.

Same old pish about getting rid of the manager.

 

Who are we going to get in? Where is the money coming from to pay off yet another manager given that we have no money for players?

This is just a kneejerk reaction after a heavy defeat in a cup competition by a team sitting 3rd in the Premier league.

 

Nobody expected us to go away to Motherwell & win was possibly the worst draw we could have got after the Old Firm.

 

While I agree that it's certainly not the right time for Moore to go, I'm not so sure it's a kneejerk reaction from some fans, who have long-standing concerns about Moore's vision for the team. For others, sure, it's a gut reaction to an unjustifiable defeat. I have no doubts that we put on the worst peformance 'Well fans have witnessed from an away side in many years.

 

I also don't think Motherwell's current standing in the SPL is an excuse for Saturday's debacle. When was the last time an SPL side defeated a first division side by 6 goals in a cup match? Falkirk knocked Rangers and Dundee Utd out of the league cup, Ayr knocked out Hearts and St Mirren, QotS got a draw at Aberdeen in the Scottish Cup.

 

Our last 2 defeats in the Scottish Cup (5-1 and 6-0) stand out as beacons becuase they're are seldom gaps so wide between SPL and SFL1 sides. There is no excuse for quite how bad we were on Saturday. There is no excuse for not putting players on the posts at corners, especially after it was painfully obvious that we weren't winning headers, there's no excuse for attempting to park the bus and conceding 5 in the first half. Motherwell being 3rd in the SPL does not excuse how inept the players and management were. The is no precedent in the recent history of the Scottish Cup to suggest that this should be expected. There is an enormous difference being fighting out a narrow defeat and being lucky to escape with only being 6 down.

 

Of course it doesn't mean the answer is to sack Moore. I belive he has to be given to the end of the season at least. But if he can't get anywhere near the best out a group of players by organising and motivating them properly, then we are in big trouble as we slide into part-time football.

[ianton]

While I agree that it's certainly not the right time for Moore to go, I'm not so sure it's a kneejerk reaction from some fans, who have long-standing concerns about Moore's vision for the team. For others, sure, it's a gut reaction to an unjustifiable defeat. I have no doubts that we put on the worst peformance 'Well fans have witnessed from an away side in many years.

 

I also don't think Motherwell's current standing in the SPL is an excuse for Saturday's debacle. When was the last time an SPL side defeated a first division side by 6 goals in a cup match? Falkirk knocked Rangers and Dundee Utd out of the league cup, Ayr knocked out Hearts and St Mirren, QotS got a draw at Aberdeen in the Scottish Cup.

 

Our last 2 defeats in the Scottish Cup (5-1 and 6-0) stand out as beacons becuase they're are seldom gaps so wide between SPL and SFL1 sides. There is no excuse for quite how bad we were on Saturday. There is no excuse for not putting players on the posts at corners, especially after it was painfully obvious that we weren't winning headers, there's no excuse for attempting to park the bus and conceding 5 in the first half. Motherwell being 3rd in the SPL does not excuse how inept the players and management were. The is no precedent in the recent history of the Scottish Cup to suggest that this should be expected. There is an enormous difference being fighting out a narrow defeat and being lucky to escape with only being 6 down.

 

Of course it doesn't mean the answer is to sack Moore. I belive he has to be given to the end of the season at least. But if he can't get anywhere near the best out a group of players by organising and motivating them properly, then we are in big trouble as we slide into part-time football.

 

Agree with this.

[piehutt]

Don't think it is right to get rid of Moore.

 

Ok, so a 6-0 doing is bad (even against a decent SPL side) and clearly our early season form seems a distant memory now. Even with most of our better players back, we are still losing against QoS etc.

 

However, even when we showed some promise at the start of the season it was clear we had too small a squad to maintain a serious campaign.

 

I genuinely don't think a top class manager would get us competing over a whole season. By top class I mean dreamland; Ferguson, Mourinho, O'Neill etc.

 

Even with our most realistic, highest level manager we could attract... is it going to make a difference? Who would this be? Gordon Chisholm, Gus McPherson, Brian Reid etc.

 

Obviously managers lose face with players and can't get anything out of a squad - which is when it's time to change, but if we really want to compete at the top of the league we need more players who are better than what we have and some who will have to sit on the bench. We need guys as good or better than Paul DG, McGeouch, Forsyth, Young, Evans, Stewart etc. These guys are all capable as squad players - but they are playing every game and they are mediocre players at this level. The likes of O'Brien, MacDonald, Fred etc have blown hot & cold as well.

 

We need another Tidser, another Smyth, another Archie Campbell etc to really move to the next level.

[ThornTON]

We let a better left back than anything we have now in McKinlay go. We have not had a decent right back since Collins in his prime.

 

Part time looms, followed by relegation in a season or two to take a permanent place in the second division.

We might meet him sooner rather than later the way things are going... Stenny sitting in a play-off spot with him and Stewart Kean in their side.

 

Not that I'm suggesting that we won't finish above Raith and Ayr, but stranger things have happened!

[vikingTON]

In the precise manner of the defeat. Having taken a 1-0 lead we proceeded to lose two absolutely stupid goals from set pieces. Defence totally disorganised and we had virtually no attempts afterwards to equalise. Total lack of effort. The calibre of the opposition is irrelevant. The Morton performance was humiliating.

No I am not talking utter s***e. Are you? ..........................FT

 

You are talking utter, utter s***e I'm afraid.

 

We narrowly lost, away from home, to a side about the same level as ourselves, by two set-piece goals. If that's 'humiliating' in anyone's book then presumably they've been watching a different side for donkeys' years, as that's par for the course with Morton.

[Fellow Traveller]

Oh but it appears that perhaps you are Jim, at the very least you're lacking perspective. A 2-1 defeat can be classed as a disappointment but by any reasonable reckoning, a 6-0 defeat is a humiliation.

David, Here is precisely what I had written a day earlier on the match thread. I think this might put my comment in a little more perspective. Guess I mistakenly thought I was still on the same thread and people had read the earlier post. .....................FT

 

"Can't believe people are wasting their time arguing over whether Stewart, Little or Graham were to blame for this goal or that goal. Sounds to me like rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic AFTER the ship sunk. Bottom line for me was they were all dreadful from 1 to 11 plus the guy in the dugout. This was for me the third and worst humiliation this season (I missed the 4-1 game at dumfries or it would have been the fourth). The Hamilton cup game we went 1-0 up then lost two stupid goals from set pieces to get knocked out. At Firhill on Friday evening at least we kept it down to 2-0 until last 20 minutes before losing another 3.

Today at half-time it was 5 going on 15. 3 from corners and twice they walked thru our midfield and defence. Just as well they weren't on a bonus for each goal scored. We were hopeless and disorganised in defence, posted missing in midfield, clueless up front.

In second half they eased off and at times we almost looked passable but our efforts on goal such as they were, were pathetic and they still managed to go up the park and score and could have done on several other times. Time for some serious reflection and action from the top down...............................FT "

[Fellow Traveller]

You are talking utter, utter s***e I'm afraid.

 

We narrowly lost, away from home, to a side about the same level as ourselves, by two set-piece goals. If that's 'humiliating' in anyone's book then presumably they've been watching a different side for donkeys' years, as that's par for the course with Morton.

What is humilating is when we are totally disorganised and completely lacking in effort. I have watched us over the last 40 years and seen some serious tankings particularly when we were bottom of the SPL but in most cases I wouldn't describe them as humiliating because the team was organised and tried their best and were simply outplayed. This season the humiliating performances are beginning to build up and for me the Hamilton cup tie was one of them. Maybe you saw the game differently. .............................FT

[The Hustler]

I dont know about getting rid of Moore as I would much prefer a period of stability. However our defence have been shambolic this season and I can only echo previous comments about the lack of full backs and the chronic lack of pace not to mention a shaky goalkeeper. My concern is that they are all Moore's signings effectively. The two players from Stirling, Graham and Forsyth, are very average 2nd or 3rd Div players....and Moore made a big play for both of them. Consequently you have to question his judgement. Or is it simply his budget only allowed him to sign that standard of player? Whatever the answer we should be very worried about the remainder of this season and also the years ahead.

I wasnt there on Saturday but the brief TV highlights were cringeworthy. Totally disorganised at set pieces and that surely has to be down to the coaching and planning. Why have nobody on the post at a corner kick? It makes no sense. We might talk about limited budgets but with the right organisation and commitment we should be able to compete. We've seen Ayr get to a cup final; Falkirk a semi final; Qos draw at Pittodrie; Auchinleck lose narrowly at Tynecastle....it can be done within a restricted budget. Another few performances like that then Moore will be looking for a new job shortly....

 

[Guest David Edwards]

 

 

 

David, Here is precisely what I had written a day earlier on the match thread. I think this might put my comment in a little more perspective. Guess I mistakenly thought I was still on the same thread and people had read the earlier post. .....................FT

 

"Can't believe people are wasting their time arguing over whether Stewart, Little or Graham were to blame for this goal or that goal. Sounds to me like rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic AFTER the ship sunk. Bottom line for me was they were all dreadful from 1 to 11 plus the guy in the dugout. This was for me the third and worst humiliation this season (I missed the 4-1 game at dumfries or it would have been the fourth). The Hamilton cup game we went 1-0 up then lost two stupid goals from set pieces to get knocked out. At Firhill on Friday evening at least we kept it down to 2-0 until last 20 minutes before losing another 3.

Today at half-time it was 5 going on 15. 3 from corners and twice they walked thru our midfield and defence. Just as well they weren't on a bonus for each goal scored. We were hopeless and disorganised in defence, posted missing in midfield, clueless up front.

In second half they eased off and at times we almost looked passable but our efforts on goal such as they were, were pathetic and they still managed to go up the park and score and could have done on several other times. Time for some serious reflection and action from the top down...............................FT "

 

You're missing the point. I'm with vikingTON on this one, that is to equate the Hamilton result (a narrow 2-1 defeat) with the humiliation at Fir Park just doesn't make sense.

[Fellow Traveller]

You're missing the point. I'm with vikingTON on this one, that is to equate the Hamilton result (a narrow 2-1 defeat) with the humiliation at Fir Park just doesn't make sense.

You're right David. I'm missing the point.

Would a narrow 2-1 defeat by Auchinleck Talbot be more or less humiliating than a 6-0 defeat by Barcelona?

My answer: It would depend on how the team perfomed in both games.

.................FT

[Toby]

You're right David. I'm missing the point.

Would a narrow 2-1 defeat by Auchinleck Talbot be more or less humiliating than a 6-0 defeat by Barcelona?

My answer: It would depend on how the team perfomed in both games.

.................FT

 

Aye, because the chasm between Motherwell and Hamilton is akin to that between Barcelona and Auchinleck Talbot.

 

Nobody's pretending we were outstanding that day at Hamilton, but whilst we lost two pretty careless goals, we were certainly nowhere near as bad as the first half on Saturday. IIRC the players were actually applauded off at full time that day. If you were to take out the abominations at Palmerston, Firhill and Fir Park, the home loss against Hamilton was the game that concerned me more than any this year- a match that we were totally bereft of ideas against a team that was off the boil in comparison to our Challenge Cup meeting beat us without getting out of second gear.

 

At the point we met Hamilton in the Challenge Cup, they were top of the league and we were second. How a team can be humiliated in a one goal defeat away to a team one place above them in the league is beyond me.

[Fellow Traveller]

Aye, because the chasm between Motherwell and Hamilton is akin to that between Barcelona and Auchinleck Talbot.

 

Nobody's pretending we were outstanding that day at Hamilton, but whilst we lost two pretty careless goals, we were certainly nowhere near as bad as the first half on Saturday. IIRC the players were actually applauded off at full time that day. If you were to take out the abominations at Palmerston, Firhill and Fir Park, the home loss against Hamilton was the game that concerned me more than any this year- a match that we were totally bereft of ideas against a team that was off the boil in comparison to our Challenge Cup meeting beat us without getting out of second gear.

 

At the point we met Hamilton in the Challenge Cup, they were top of the league and we were second. How a team can be humiliated in a one goal defeat away to a team one place above them in the league is beyond me.

OK so you think 3 abominations. Can't see 3 or 4 makes much difference to the overall assessment of the season so far. .........................FT

[Toby]

OK so you think 3 abominations. Can't see 3 or 4 makes much difference to the overall assessment of the season so far. .........................FT

 

I'm not making an assessment on the overall season though. I'm countering your argument about one particular game as I, and it would appear plenty others, don't see how a narrow away defeat to the team at the top of the league in the most trivial national competition of them all, and far down Moore's list of priorities at the time is a humiliation on a par with Saturday's riding.