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Right-backs over the past decade


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#1 TRVMP

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 11:55 PM

My brother and I were talking about our right-back woes, and we both concluded sadly that it's been a problem position for a long while. Lee Kilday had a good run there before he went off the boil, and injuries no doubt played their part in that. But I reckon you have to go back to David Van Zanten in 2009 before you find a right-back we had on a permanent deal - no loans - whom you could call a competitive, top-end, consistent Championship player. (Notwithstanding the fact that we weren't in the Championship for some of this time, of course.) Am I forgetting someone?

 

We've had decent players in all other positions, sometimes more than one at a time, but this one is a sticking point.


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Do you like Abba?


#2 TheGoon

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 01:10 AM

Connor Pepper. Oh what could’ve been.
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#3 Toby

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 01:23 AM

Connor Pepper. Oh what could’ve been.


I actually watched Pepper playing for Glentoran on Sky last week playing at right back and he was the best player on the park against Institute. They were a bit of a gang though, in fairness.

Our best in that time was probably Scott Taggart in 12/13 before bizarrely being moved to a defensive midfield role in the banter season that followed.
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#4 TRVMP

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 01:41 AM

Pepper was one I considered, but we didn't use him much at RB, if memory serves (and that was extra-weird since I think he played there at ICT.) I'm glad he's back in the game anyway.


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Now before Gavin goes, I'd like to ask him one more question.


Do you like Abba?


#5 BishopLenBrennan

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 03:38 AM

Pepper was one I considered, but we didn't use him much at RB, if memory serves (and that was extra-weird since I think he played there at ICT.) I'm glad he's back in the game anyway.


I might be remembering wrong but I think he mostly played central midfield for Inverness and was only slotted it at right back an odd time. He showed a lot of promise at right back before his injury. I remember a game away at Livi where he tore them up for arse paper.
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#6 BishopLenBrennan

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 03:40 AM

I actually watched Pepper playing for Glentoran on Sky last week playing at right back and he was the best player on the park against Institute. They were a bit of a gang though, in fairness.

Our best in that time was probably Scott Taggart in 12/13 before bizarrely being moved to a defensive midfield role in the banter season that followed.


I remember seeing on Twitter that he'd won some award for Glentoran, possibly player of the year. He seems to be doing well, good to see after that horrendous injury.
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#7 dunning1874

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 07:49 AM

Right backs/had a run of games at right back since 09/10:

David MacGregor
Peter Weatherson
David Van Zanten
Alan Reid
Ryan McGuffie
Grant Evans
Andy Graham
Kevin McCann
Derek Young (only played there a couple of times but including him because it’s hilarious)
Scott Taggart
Craig Reid
Jamie McCormack
Ben Sampayo
Thomas O’Ware
Lee Kilday
Michael Miller
Conor Pepper
Michael Doyle
Jamie McDonagh
Reghan Tumilty

I suppose Kyle Jacobs, Stephen Welsh and maybe Jim McAlister will be added this season.

Grim.
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Brian Wake my Lord, Brian Wake

Brian Wake my Lord, Brian Wake

Brian Wake my Lord, Brian Wake

Oh Lord, Brian Wake


#8 Tubes

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 07:57 AM

Reid pre beast era did well there for us. Weatherson aswell was a real asset with his goals and set pieces.

Jamie McCormack standing out as absolutely terrible. Now in the lowland league.

Edited by Tubes, 14 September 2019 - 07:57 AM.

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#9 Madton

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 08:41 AM

I'd say Taggart had a pretty successful stint at RB for us, especially during the 2012-2013 season.
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All in with a Doyle Brunson

#10 macca937

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 09:17 AM

Bring back McDonut
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#11 SpoonTon

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 10:26 AM

I'd say Taggart had a pretty successful stint at RB for us, especially during the 2012-2013 season.


He did, but he was also never particularly trusted in the tougher games. I think we protected his deficiencies pretty well that season (which were very much shown up the following season).

Doyle also looked good when Forbes was in top form in front of him, but struggled at other times.

There's a real struggle to find proper full backs at this level. They can either defend and are a bit of a liability when going forward, or are fine going forward and a liability in defence.
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#12 joebananas

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 10:40 AM

Jamie McCormack was clearly the standout performer in the above list.
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#13 gmfc_craig

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 12:15 PM

I give you...Peter Weatherson
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#14 Scott

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 01:36 PM

Scott Taggart was excellent in the 2012/13 season. Conor Pepper was starting to look the real deal there until his horror injury. Glad to see the boy is now making a come back.
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#15 vikingTON

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 01:47 PM

IIRC Taggart was the weak link that Partick specifically targeted in the de facto title decider match - and rightly so, as for whatever good performances he had against dross that season he was never even top half of the Championship standard in that role.

Our list of left backs would be as equally miserable though and until about a year or two ago was seen as our constant problem area. A back three with wing backs should therefore be our default tactic every season: we cannot reliably get good full backs at this level and so shouldn’t waste four wages on a dung first choice and a backup option. That it also removes the need to waste money on several sand-dancing wide midfielders further up the park makes it an even more logical solution.

The focus should be on having a strong enough spine of the team so that having honest, hard working jobbers on the flanks won’t get in the way too much. Yet again Sir David Irons pointed the way with this method.

Edited by vikingTON, 14 September 2019 - 01:54 PM.

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The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before..

So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are


#16 DreamOakTree

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Posted 14 September 2019 - 01:54 PM

Was Van Zanten in that era? Not great but maybe our only natural RB since Derek Collins.
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#17 SramTon

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Posted 15 September 2019 - 01:21 PM

IIRC Taggart was the weak link that Partick specifically targeted in the de facto title decider match - and rightly so, as for whatever good performances he had against dross that season he was never even top half of the Championship standard in that role.

Our list of left backs would be as equally miserable though and until about a year or two ago was seen as our constant problem area. A back three with wing backs should therefore be our default tactic every season: we cannot reliably get good full backs at this level and so shouldn’t waste four wages on a dung first choice and a backup option. That it also removes the need to waste money on several sand-dancing wide midfielders further up the park makes it an even more logical solution.

The focus should be on having a strong enough spine of the team so that having honest, hard working jobbers on the flanks won’t get in the way too much. Yet again Sir David Irons pointed the way with this method.


Except the basis of that strong spine (Greacen, McGuffie, and in particular Jenkins and Wake) were all signed prior to Irons.

Irons‘ actual additions to the spine included the likes of Dominic Shimmin, Chris "Junior" Smith, Alan McManus, Erik Paartalu, Neil McFarlane, Steve Masterson, Jon Newby and James Grady. Of those only Shimmin (heavily qualified) and Paartalu strengthened the spine.

Rather than Sir David "pointing the way" with this method, here's what he actually said at the Fans' Q&A in March 2008 (https://greenockmort.../q-summary.html):

John Gisbey: I have concerns with our current tactics. I don't like to play with one up front at home and don't think 3 at the back suits us - particularly as it nullifies the threat of Jim McAlister - who I think is our most creative player - as he spends most of his time at left back.

Davie Irons (looking really interested in a tactical discussion): First I'd just like to say I agree about Jim [McAlister]. I think he is an absolute star in the making and will play at a very high level, although I can't take any credit for that. Quite simply I play 3 at the back because we have no natural full-backs (applause from the crowd).

Rather than sign a natural right-back, Irons again "paved the way" [sic] by continuing to give game time to Kevin Finlayson in the exact same manner as his useless predecessor in the managerial hotseat.

In fairness to Irons, he did eventually move Ryan McGuffie to right back. Thereby, removing a player from the spine of the team and playing with a traditional-style right back.

Edited by SramTon, Yesterday, 08:59 AM.

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#18 BishopLenBrennan

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Posted 15 September 2019 - 01:32 PM

 

In fairness to Irons, he did eventually move Ryan McGuffie to right back.   Thereby, removing a player from the spine of the team and playing with a traditional-style right back.

 

 

Moving McGuffie to right back improved both the defence and the midfield, as before the move he was anonymous in most matches. I remember the battle-cry at the time being 'he's doing all the work in midfield that people don't see', which was true. We couldn't see it because it didn't exist. 


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#19 DreamOakTree

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Posted 15 September 2019 - 06:20 PM


Except the basis of that strong spine (Greacen, McGuffie, and in particular Jenkins and Wake) were all signed prior to Irons.

Irons actual additions to the spine included the likes of Dominic Shimmin, Chris "Junior" Smith, Alan McManus, Erik Paartalu, Neil McFarlane, Steve Masterson, Jon Newby and James Grady. Of those only Shimmin (heavily qualified) and Paartalu strengthened the spine.

Rather than Sir David "pointing the way" with this method, here's what he actually said at the Fans' Q&A in March 2008 (https://greenockmort.../q-summary.html):

John Gisbey: I have concerns with our current tactics. I don't like to play with one up front at home and don't think 3 at the back suits us - particularly as it nullifies the threat of Jim McAlister - who I think is our most creative player - as he spends most of his time at left back.

Davie Irons (looking really interested in a tactical discussion): First I'd just like to say I agree about Jim [McAlister]. I think he is an absolute star in the making and will play at a very high level, although I can't take any credit for that. Quite simply I play 3 at the back because we have no natural full-backs (applause from the crowd).

Rather than sign a natural right-back, Iron's again "paved the way" [sic] by continuing to give game time to Kevin Finlayson in the exact same manner as his useless predecessor in the managerial hotseat.

In fairness to Irons, he did eventually move Ryan McGuffie to right back. Thereby, removing a player from the spine of the team and playing with a traditional-style right back.


You can’t be implying that VT’s FBA was flawed?
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#20 vikingTON

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Posted Yesterday, 03:14 PM

Where to begin with this drivel. Let's try at the start:

 

Except the basis of that strong spine (Greacen, McGuffie, and in particular Jenkins and Wake) were all signed prior to Irons.

Irons‘ actual additions to the spine included the likes of Dominic Shimmin, Chris "Junior" Smith, Alan McManus, Erik Paartalu, Neil McFarlane, Steve Masterson, Jon Newby and James Grady. Of those only Shimmin (heavily qualified) and Paartalu strengthened the spine.

 

Except that I never claimed that Irons signed the spine of the squad. It was Irons however who made them the focal point of the team - rather than Jim McInally, who in January/February 2008 was still trying to shoehorn in his lovechild Scott McLaughlin.and other jobbers using his new formation tombola system every single week. Irons put these players in a functioning system and then made sure to sign up enough players to fill those roles after 0.45 seconds of Wake's glorious swording at Firhill and made them mainstays of his side until the snake duo knifed him in the back. Even McManus actually made a decent contribution on the pitch during the 2008-09 season.

 

You can compare and contrast that approach handily to the parade of utter fucking nonsense we've been dealing with in the centre back position this summer: including signing a player for real, actual money just to release him again 33 days later.

 

Rather than Sir David "pointing the way" with this method, here's what he actually said at the Fans' Q&A in March 2008 (https://greenockmort.../q-summary.html):

John Gisbey: I have concerns with our current tactics. I don't like to play with one up front at home and don't think 3 at the back suits us - particularly as it nullifies the threat of Jim McAlister - who I think is our most creative player - as he spends most of his time at left back.

Davie Irons (looking really interested in a tactical discussion): First I'd just like to say I agree about Jim [McAlister]. I think he is an absolute star in the making and will play at a very high level, although I can't take any credit for that. Quite simply I play 3 at the back because we have no natural full-backs (applause from the crowd). 

 

 

I can only wonder why Sir David Irons might seem rather disinclined to enter into a tactical debate with some fan at a forum tbh. Least of all one who seriously thought that we regularly played 'one up front' when our actual system was a blatantly obvious 3-5-2.

 

And the bizarre, 'smoking gun' quote that you've trawled serves only to, err, confirm my point entirely. When faced with a lack of credible right-back options, Irons' correct approach was to:

i) not play a formation that requires a right back in the team and critically,

ii) also ensuring that a strong spine of the team is in place to deal with any weakness on the flanks and brutally overpower the opposition regardless

 

Once again, we can compare and contrast this approach to the parade of utter shite right backs and 'cover' right backs who have been brought into the club by many of his terrible successors. The peak of this utter nonsense being of course in January 2014, when we brought in two more jobbers (Jamie McCormack and Ben Sampayo) to fight it out for the most useless place in the team like the some shan final round of Gladiators

 

Rather than sign a natural right-back, Irons again "paved the way" [sic] by continuing to give game time to Kevin Finlayson in the exact same manner as his useless predecessor in the managerial hotseat.

 

 

But unlike his useless predecessor, Irons made sure that the centre was stacked with six foot three hammer-throwers and so was impervious to whatever nonsense crosses would be swung in behind Finlayson by the other team. Again, a logical solution to a problem that McInally and his set of useless midget lovechildren could never deal with despite having four years in the job. And one that actually turned a weakness in the squad and the wider transfer market into a strength (opposition teams targeting wide players and crossing into a land of giants).
 
In fairness to Irons, he did eventually move Ryan McGuffie to right back. Thereby, removing a player from the spine of the team and playing with a traditional-style right back.

 

 

Erm no he didn't - McGuffie only replaced van Zanten at right-back in January 2010 as part of James Grady's Mike Bassett, England Manager devotion to '4-4-fucking two'. Which worked out well enough for McGuffie but so badly everywhere else that it almost got us relegated. 

 

So given that your dissertation was wrong on literally every single point, I'd have to say it's probably the worst attempt at revisionism on this cesspool of a forum since AyshireTon blamed Irons for 'ruining Colin Stewart's confidence' and being responsible for him chucking goals on like a circus clown, fully two years and multiple POTY awards after the big, bad, evil manager left the club. That or the all-time classic 'he was deliberately injuring his own players in training' line.


Edited by vikingTON, Today, 02:33 PM.

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The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before..

So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are



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