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Poor wee Rangers


pink_panther

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It gets sang up and down both scotland and England by a multitude of teams. Its a timeless classic.

 

In terms of clubs up and down Scotland I can only recall the following outfits singing a variant, in approximate order of significance to their general songbook:

 

Rangers* 

Sevco

The Dundee 'Derry Boys'

Kilmarnock

The Famous

 

Given the undoubtedly staunch nature of three of the above institutions and Kilmarnock's more than significant association through 'fairweather fans' as well, I'd put decent money on Airdrie in at least one of their failed guises having joined in the party as well. But seeing as they haven't actually had a fanbase to speak of in the last fifteen years its a bit difficult to confirm. 

 

It's quite clearly a song associated with outfits that we shouldn't be getting tarred with though. And - more importantly to my point on P and B - it's just diabolical and functionally useless patter as well. If people want to sing it then that's entirely up to them but they pretty much forfeit their right to complain about just about anything else associated with the club by the fanbase as a result: including the drum and vlog outputs as well. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

* d. 2012

The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before..

 

So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are

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Most football songs are sung by loads of different teams with the words tweaked to suit. On the other hand, The Billy Boys is 100% a Rangers song and definitely originates from them - I dont understand why we sing it at all. It makes us look like a Rangers-adjacent diddy team.

 

I dont think the removal of the word **** gets us off the hook completely either. The intent of the original song has been about active support for violence against one ethnic/religious group for long periods of its usage. Theres no way of getting away from that.

Does it do the same to Man United when they sing it?
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You can argue all day whether us singing it has sectarian connotations or not, the bottom line is that to non-Morton fans it makes us sound like another mini-Rangers (along with Hearts, Dundee and Airdrie).

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For all that I've had differing opinions from you over the years on many subjects, I've never once had you down as an apologist for what is still blatant sectarianism.

 

Read over what you have posted above - what you're effectively say it's okay, because they're intentions were to offend people of both faiths.

 

I'm not an apologist for it at all.  I'm just saying that their song is actually critical of sectarianism, and that some people in misquoting the lyrics ("The" instead of "Your", thus changing the meaning of the line) are mistakenly painting their support as sectarian, which I think is incorrect - there are many other attributes that you could criticise them for, such as their sense of entitlement, their delusion that they are of great relevance within Scottish football, etc. etc.  It's long past time that sectarianism vanished from Scotland and the OF clubs are major drivers of sectarianism by virtue of some of the elements among their support, but although most clubs including us and Thistle have those who have sympathies on either side of the great divide, neither club, nor about another 35 SPFL clubs, is really tainted with sectarianism to any great degree as most of us are mature enough not to care - or even know - what religion other supporters are.  I have no idea what religion you are, or Toby, or probably anyone on this forum and it is irrelevant to me.  We are all Morton supporters and whilst we don't want neanderthals tarring the reputation of the club, unless you actually identify the (few, I think) offenders and ban them from Cappielow, you're always going to get some idiots getting carried away.  As a devout atheist/humanist, I despair of religion as it is a means of controlling people and also a means to divide and rule.  Time the whole of Scotland moved into the 21st century, at which point ditties such as that Thistle one would I assume die out very quickly.

"Any nation given the opportunity to regain its national sovereignty and which then rejects it is so far beneath contempt that it is hard to put words to it."

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This is of course very true- and also Partick, whose sectarian chanting was also ignored. I’m only really concerned about sneering at them though.

 

It does however smack of whataboutery to bring them up rather than addressing our own problems. There is a problem, albeit minor, in our support that does raise it’s ugly head from time to time. I don’t see how the BBC’s failure to report instances fairly across the board should detract from us pointing out faults within our support. I don’t know who it was singing that in Miller’s direction, but that sort of shite is poor, and should be binned.

 

Particularly stupid given that, IIRC, Miller played for both Rangers and Celtic.

"Any nation given the opportunity to regain its national sovereignty and which then rejects it is so far beneath contempt that it is hard to put words to it."

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I'm not an apologist for it at all. I'm just saying that their song is actually critical of sectarianism, and that some people in misquoting the lyrics ("The" instead of "Your", thus changing the meaning of the line) are mistakenly painting their support as sectarian, which I think is incorrect - there are many other attributes that you could criticise them for, such as their sense of entitlement, their delusion that they are of great relevance within Scottish football, etc. etc. It's long past time that sectarianism vanished from Scotland and the OF clubs are major drivers of sectarianism by virtue of some of the elements among their support, but although most clubs including us and Thistle have those who have sympathies on either side of the great divide, neither club, nor about another 35 SPFL clubs, is really tainted with sectarianism to any great degree as most of us are mature enough not to care - or even know - what religion other supporters are. I have no idea what religion you are, or Toby, or probably anyone on this forum and it is irrelevant to me. We are all Morton supporters and whilst we don't want neanderthals tarring the reputation of the club, unless you actually identify the (few, I think) offenders and ban them from Cappielow, you're always going to get some idiots getting carried away. As a devout atheist/humanist, I despair of religion as it is a means of controlling people and also a means to divide and rule. Time the whole of Scotland moved into the 21st century, at which point ditties such as that Thistle one would I assume die out very quickly.

Some sections of our support sing half of our songs wrong because they mistakenly think the words are different.

 

Maybe the intention for 'your' over 'the' is there, but you can almost guarantee that a fair section of their support will be singing the wrong one.

 

By definition, sectarianism is attaching to one group and discriminating against the other, so by definition the song is not sectarian in intention.

 

But religion has no place in football. They are inappropriately bringing religion and sectarianism into it by even referencing it, giving it validation.

 

There's no place for it, regardless of being of critical nature and attacking both sides, therefore the fact they sing about it is abhorrent.

 

2 wrongs don't make a right.

 

And to be honest, it's not even that critic in nature. They aren't singing 'sectarianism is bad'. It's a shameless attempt to poke both sides with a rather shitty stick.

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I'm not an apologist for it at all.  I'm just saying that their song is actually critical of sectarianism, and that some people in misquoting the lyrics ("The" instead of "Your", thus changing the meaning of the line) are mistakenly painting their support as sectarian, which I think is incorrect - there are many other attributes that you could criticise them for, such as their sense of entitlement, their delusion that they are of great relevance within Scottish football, etc. etc. 

 

In what bizarre, alternate universe can singing 'fuck your Pope' be regarded as not sectarian? 

 

 It's long past time that sectarianism vanished from Scotland and the OF clubs are major drivers of sectarianism by virtue of some of the elements among their support, but although most clubs including us and Thistle have those who have sympathies on either side of the great divide, neither club, nor about another 35 SPFL clubs, is really tainted with sectarianism to any great degree as most of us are mature enough not to care - or even know - what religion other supporters are

 

 

The fact that Partick Thistle persist in blatantly sectarian chants gives lie to the idea that they're not really tainted with sectarianism to any great degree. 

 

  As a devout atheist/humanist, I despair of religion as it is a means of controlling people and also a means to divide and rule.  Time the whole of Scotland moved into the 21st century, at which point ditties such as that Thistle one would I assume die out very quickly.

 

 

Or we could simply call a spade a spade, a sectarian chant a sectarian chant and punish it accordingly now rather than waiting on your truly ridiculous exercise in secular whataboutery ever coming to fruition.  

The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before..

 

So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are

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In what bizarre, alternate universe can singing 'fuck your Pope' be regarded as not sectarian? 

 

 

The fact that Partick Thistle persist in blatantly sectarian chants gives lie to the idea that they're not really tainted with sectarianism to any great degree. 

 

 

Or we could simply call a spade a spade, a sectarian chant a sectarian chant and punish it accordingly now rather than waiting on your truly ridiculous exercise in secular whataboutery ever coming to fruition.  

 

The line in question is "fuck your pope and fuck your queen".  It's saying fuck the pair of you, your figureheads and all that they stand for in OF "culture".  It might be offensive (and I'm sure that's the intention) but it's not actually sectarian in the sense that it isn't taking a side in the sectarian divide that plagues the west of Scotland.  You could probably create a similar analogy for Sunni and Shi'ite or whatever flavour of sectarian division takes your fancy.

 

You're right about the futility of trying to get past the sectarian divide in the WoS of course.  Too many people have a vested interest in maintaining it; in fact too many folk base their whole life around it.  Scotland's shame, on both sides.

"Any nation given the opportunity to regain its national sovereignty and which then rejects it is so far beneath contempt that it is hard to put words to it."

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The line in question is "fuck your pope and fuck your queen".  It's saying fuck the pair of you, your figureheads and all that they stand for in OF "culture".  It might be offensive (and I'm sure that's the intention) but it's not actually sectarian in the sense that it isn't taking a side in the sectarian divide that plagues the west of Scotland.  You could probably create a similar analogy for Sunni and Shi'ite or whatever flavour of sectarian division takes your fancy.

 

If you were to sing 'fuck your Sunni and fuck your Shia' in the bumpkin market square of Dumfries tomorrow then you'd be arrested for it champ. And that defence wouldn't stand up to even a moment's scrutiny in a court of law. So why should it somehow save the thick bigots of the Partick fanbase who sing sectarian ditties every week from their rightful punishment? 

The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before..

 

So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are

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Does it do the same to Man United when they sing it?

Straw man pish. I'd be surprised if there isn't a significant number of Man Utd fans who don't know the origins of the song, or at least its significance. They also play in a different league, are a significantly bigger club than Rangers and don't play their games 20 miles down the road from Ibrox.

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If you were to sing 'fuck your Sunni and fuck your Shia' in the bumpkin market square of Dumfries tomorrow then you'd be arrested for it champ. And that defence wouldn't stand up to even a moment's scrutiny in a court of law. So why should it somehow save the thick bigots of the Partick fanbase who sing sectarian ditties every week from their rightful punishment? 

 

That's a different argument, VT.  If the authorities chose to clamp down on anything they regarded as offensive singing, I don't think Firhill would be the first place they would go if they wanted to make a large number of arrests.  Although to be fair, that's probably the sort of thing they would do to avoid having to deal with the real problem areas.  Which at least UEFA appear willing to attend to, and not before time.

"Any nation given the opportunity to regain its national sovereignty and which then rejects it is so far beneath contempt that it is hard to put words to it."

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That's a different argument, VT. 

 

No it isn't. You're the one who thinks that directing hate speech towards both sides of a sectarian dispute means that you can't possibly be guilty of an offence - the very analogy that you provided shows that this is in fact utter nonsense though. 

 

'Fuck your Pope' is every bit as sectarian as 'Fuck the Pope' as held under existing laws. Nobody cares if a fraction of their support swilling beaujolais in a Queen Margaret Drive bistro think they're somehow making a witty, ironic point with it. The vast majority of them are in fact just your standard, knuckle-dragging, Glasgow bigots. And so should have the book thrown at them accordingly. 

 

 If the authorities chose to clamp down on anything they regarded as offensive singing, I don't think Firhill would be the first place they would go if they wanted to make a large number of arrests.  

 

 

And we're back to some more whataboutery again. 

The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before..

 

So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are

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