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Bring back Jim Duffy


capitanus

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You are right about Dolly Gray and especially Bobby Collins. Played against Collins once and he was made of cast iron. Regarding your rather strange dissatisfaction with our win at Parkhead, we won against the odds with a shite team. That is every bit as valid as gubbing teams when you have a decent team. I for one was amazed and deliriously happy. We don't have the luxury of good teams these days and with our previous business model destroyed by Bosman, unlikely to have any in the immediate future.

 

I get that you and other Ton Fans were overjoyed by the result, as that's exactly how it made you feel. That's great you got that from the night and I would never criticise any fan for that. It's not even about opinion it's just about your  genuine feelings for your club. Am I also allowed to be genuine about how I felt as unfortunately I can't now go back and lie that I enjoyed that type of performance or result? It appears I am unanimously outnumbered on here so that should mean everyone else can continue to enjoy their memories of that night, without me detracting from your experience of the event.

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I get that you and other Ton Fans were overjoyed by the result, as that's exactly how it made you feel. That's great you got that from the night and I would never criticise any fan for that. It's not even about opinion it's just about your genuine feelings for your club. Am I also allowed to be genuine about how I felt as unfortunately I can't now go back and lie that I enjoyed that type of performance or result? It appears I am unanimously outnumbered on here so that should mean everyone else can continue to enjoy their memories of that night, without me detracting from your experience of the event.

No, you're genuinely not allowed. A bunch of obese pipe-smokers hoofing a medicine ball about while breathing in soot and grime in the "60s" is barely the same sport as Sir Douglas of Imrie and company played, for one thing, and for another thing you're missing the giant-killing aspect. Celtic's top player would have earned as much in a week as the entire Morton squad. Beating them with tenacity, grit, and a well-struck penalty is simply the right way to go about it.

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No, you're genuinely not allowed. A bunch of obese pipe-smokers hoofing a medicine ball about while breathing in soot and grime in the "60s" is barely the same sport as Sir Douglas of Imrie and company played, for one thing, and for another thing you're missing the giant-killing aspect. Celtic's top player would have earned as much in a week as the entire Morton squad. Beating them with tenacity, grit, and a well-struck penalty is simply the right way to go about it.

 

You've made your point quite well there, apart from you being allowed an opinion whilst I am not. I've watched Morton sides (including a part time team in the late 70's) play teams with earnings similarly way beyond our reach, and play them off the park, E.g. the Old Firm, the New Firm, Hibs, Hearts etc.

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The gulf in wages between Morton and Celtic in the 70s is absolutely nothing like the wage gulf these days, it's not even close.

 

Not enjoying agricultural football is one thing, but saying you were "embarrassed to be a Ton fan" and taking "absolutely no pleasure" in it is absolutely and completely verboten. No Morton fan is to be permitted to hold this opinion.

 

And come to think of it, what should Morton have done differently? Knocked one of Celtic's twenty corners in at their own near post?

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And this really can't be emphasized enough: football, in terms of ability and tactics and fitness, was absolutely crap until the 70s, and only became halfway decent in the 80s. The Celtic team that Morton beat that night would have won every single World Cup final until 1970 by a huge margin, and every European Cup final until 1971, and most of those thereafter for another decade. While you can say you can only beat what's in front of you, I'm not especially impressed by the fact that Morton managed to beat a few abject Rangers teams over the course of decades. Winning at Parkhead in the 2010s, even in the League Cup, was a monumental achievement for a squad like ours, and should not be diminished at all by anyone, let alone held up as a source of shame by a Morton fan.

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And this really can't be emphasized enough: football, in terms of ability and tactics and fitness, was absolutely crap until the 70s, and only became halfway decent in the 80s. The Celtic team that Morton beat that night would have won every single World Cup final until 1970 by a huge margin, and every European Cup final until 1971, and most of those thereafter for another decade. While you can say you can only beat what's in front of you, I'm not especially impressed by the fact that Morton managed to beat a few abject Rangers teams over the course of decades. Winning at Parkhead in the 2010s, even in the League Cup, was a monumental achievement for a squad like ours, and should not be diminished at all by anyone, let alone held up as a source of shame by a Morton fan.

You’ve made quite a few historical claims there TRVMP, can you back them up with sound evidence? If so I’d be very interested to hear your account of what actually happened.

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From “and” through to “decade”

I've watched the vast majority of European Cup finals, and all World Cup finals, from that time, and the quality of play in all of them is pretty poor by today's standards, albeit generally getting better over time. But the big difference now is time on the ball. Defenders could basically treat possession like a series of free kicks - they can't do that now, hence entire systems of play (sweeper-dependent catenaccio, or anything involving roaming center-backs) either don't exist at all or have morphed beyond all recognition. In almost every case, too, modern football has added complexity that only a few teams of the past could understand, much less counter. Add to that the improved nutritional and physical profile of athletes now and in most cases it wouldn't even be a contest.

 

If you gave the likes of Cruyff and Neeskens access to today's coaching and technique, they'd be as great now as they were then, but a lot of what was once considered world-class is, by today's standards, actually not very good.

 

And the gap between the big clubs and little clubs is, I say again, way bigger now than ever before. In this specific sense, Celtic's beating Inter in Lisbon was less of a *one-off achievement* - just in terms of the ninety minutes - than their wins over the likes of Barcelona in the past decade. (Obviously winning the European Cup is an unsurpassed achievement, but I'm talking only about the level of competition.)

 

Don't take my word for it. The 1950 World Cup final is on YouTube. Maybe three players on that pitch would get the slightest sniff of professional football these days if they walked out or a time machine tomorrow. The Hampden final of the European Cup is a bad joke, with some of the world's best still conceding twice against literal amateurs. By the 70s things were immeasurably better but again the pace of the game was almost unbelievably slow. Not until the mid 80s was football recognizably fast and physical the way it is today.

 

Or you could just re-read my first sentence which condenses this all nicely.

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Oh aye, and every goalkeeper was shite until Yashin as well. He basically invented diving to the side, or at least you'd think it to watch those that came before him.

 

I've watched the vast majority of European Cup finals, and all World Cup finals, from that time, and the quality of play in all of them is pretty poor by today's standards, albeit generally getting better over time. But the big difference now is time on the ball. Defenders could basically treat possession like a series of free kicks - they can't do that now, hence entire systems of play (sweeper-dependent catenaccio, or anything involving roaming center-backs) either don't exist at all or have morphed beyond all recognition. In almost every case, too, modern football has added complexity that only a few teams of the past could understand, much less counter. Add to that the improved nutritional and physical profile of athletes now and in most cases it wouldn't even be a contest.

 

If you gave the likes of Cruyff and Neeskens access to today's coaching and technique, they'd be as great now as they were then, but a lot of what was once considered world-class is, by today's standards, actually not very good.

 

And the gap between the big clubs and little clubs is, I say again, way bigger now than ever before. In this specific sense, Celtic's beating Inter in Lisbon was less of a *one-off achievement* - just in terms of the ninety minutes - than their wins over the likes of Barcelona in the past decade. (Obviously winning the European Cup is an unsurpassed achievement, but I'm talking only about the level of competition.)

 

Don't take my word for it. The 1950 World Cup final is on YouTube. Maybe three players on that pitch would get the slightest sniff of professional football these days if they walked out or a time machine tomorrow. The Hampden final of the European Cup is a bad joke, with some of the world's best still conceding twice against literal amateurs. By the 70s things were immeasurably better but again the pace of the game was almost unbelievably slow. Not until the mid 80s was football recognizably fast and physical the way it is today.

 

Or you could just re-read my first sentence which condenses this all nicely.

Again you've made some very valid points which I've enjoyed reading. The only counter-arguments I would make are:

 

1. As in all sports football has progressed beyond recognition, mainly in fitness, athleticism, tactics and sports science, to the point I'm not even sure how possibly my all time hero Andy Ritchie would fit into today's game. However I don't feel you're taking into account the fact that the yardsticks for success have been the same for all competitors throughout those eras, I.e. Morton with overweight, tactically unaware players would still have had a similarly difficult task in competing with the likes of Celtic's overweight, tactically unaware players, therefore a comparison is still valid.

 

2. I attended a charity match at Ravenscraig Stadium in the 80's, when I a Morton ex-players 11 played against (I think) an ex-Old Firm 11. Morton's left winger was 60 year old Johnny Delaney, who was by a country mile the best player on the park. His speed, athleticism, skill and delivery of crosses were all exceptional.

 

3. Morton also took on top level English clubs in the Texaco Cup in the 70's, and didn't revert to parking the bus and hoping to nick a goal. We faced them head on and beat West Brom home and away, Wolves away and drew with Newcastle home and away. In each case the English side were recognised as having one of their best teams ever.

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Again you've made some very valid points which I've enjoyed reading. The only counter-arguments I would make are:

 

1. As in all sports football has progressed beyond recognition, mainly in fitness, athleticism, tactics and sports science, to the point I'm not even sure how possibly my all time hero Andy Ritchie would fit into today's game. However I don't feel you're taking into account the fact that the yardsticks for success have been the same for all competitors throughout those eras, I.e. Morton with overweight, tactically unaware players would still have had a similarly difficult task in competing with the likes of Celtic's overweight, tactically unaware players, therefore a comparison is still valid.

 

2. I attended a charity match at Ravenscraig Stadium in the 80's, when I a Morton ex-players 11 played against (I think) an ex-Old Firm 11. Morton's left winger was 60 year old Johnny Delaney, who was by a country mile the best player on the park. His speed, athleticism, skill and delivery of crosses were all exceptional.

 

3. Morton also took on top level English clubs in the Texaco Cup in the 70's, and didn't revert to parking the bus and hoping to nick a goal. We faced them head on and beat West Brom home and away, Wolves away and drew with Newcastle home and away. In each case the English side were recognised as having one of their best teams ever.

 

1. I'm not for one second comparing Jon Scullion to Andy Ritchie, but Scullion is an informative example of what happens when a guy with natural ability doesn't work to keep himself fit. He's now playing for Kilbirnie or something. I imagine that Ritchie would find himself in a similar boat - maybe a level or two higher. But winning national awards and the like, no chance. In fact he'd probably have been binned by Celtic long before making a league appearance.

 

It is true that the yardstick for success is the same, but I addressed this point - the gap between the haves and the have-nots is grotesque these days. It wasn't nearly so vast in the past, not by a long shot. It may sound counterintuitive but a part-time Morton team in the 70s was still financially closer to a 70s Celtic than a full-time Morton team is to Celtic in the 2010s. I only see this getting more and more pronounced as time goes on.

 

2. Yeah... it was a charity match at Ravenscraig with a bunch of ex-pros, half of whom probably smoked and the other half probably had rickets. Do you really think even in those days a 60-year-old man could have played professionally?

 

3. This wouldn't happen now. You'll be well aware that the gulf between the leagues in the two countries then was nothing like now. When the vast majority of football income was based on gate receipts, the top English clubs weren't that far ahead of their Scottish counterparts. As late as the late 80s and early 90s, England internationals would sign for Rangers (defunct), and the Battle of Britain in 1992 was eagerly anticipated as a contest in a way that, say, Celtic vs. Man City simply couldn't be these days. The gulf is bigger than ever. So these days, if such a tournament existed - and we weren't playing Wrexham and Solihull - we'd absolutely park the bus.

 

(I'd also take issue with these being these clubs' best ever teams. I'm pretty sure Newcastle got relegated around then. Wolves weren't bad, though.)

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