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#21 TheGoon

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Posted 17 June 2019 - 05:09 PM

The English don't have more glory hunters than us. When you look at both of our league clubs average attendance\an average Saturday matchday country-wide attendance per capita, it's a very similar figure.


That’s...not even close to being true.
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#22 TRVMP

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Posted 17 June 2019 - 07:03 PM

These are only senior league attendances, which I find a bit misleading. In a lot of places (such as Iceland) football participation is very high, so family and friends will watch an age group team but maybe not their local adult team. Meanwhile in Scotland and England both, non-league football has a decent following. In contrast, places like France simply don't have a spectator culture outside of the top few divisions.

I reckon many northern countries are sold short by that data when it comes to actually watching live football, but how Scotland and England would shake out there, I'm not sure.
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Do you like Abba?


#23 vikingTON

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Posted 17 June 2019 - 07:28 PM

These are only senior league attendances, which I find a bit misleading. In a lot of places (such as Iceland) football participation is very high, so family and friends will watch an age group team but maybe not their local adult team. Meanwhile in Scotland and England both, non-league football has a decent following. In contrast, places like France simply don't have a spectator culture outside of the top few divisions.


It’s not really misleading to exclude pointless youth sides that (presumably) don’t charge to watch games and certainly don’t rely on gate receipts. If your country’s footballing culture is too piss-poor to sustain that category then it’s rightly down to the pub league ranks you go.
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The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before..

So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are


#24 TRVMP

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Posted 17 June 2019 - 07:41 PM

It’s not really misleading to exclude pointless youth sides that (presumably) don’t charge to watch games and certainly don’t rely on gate receipts. If your country’s footballing culture is too piss-poor to sustain that category then it’s rightly down to the pub league ranks you go.

 

It's worth noting that even despite this penalization, Scotland, Norway, the Dutch etc. (and I'd estimate the Dutch are among the worst affected, due to the strength of amateur football there) are near the top of the charts. What I'm saying is that we're even better than is suggested, whereas places like Ukraine and Romania, despite their awful figures, are almost certainly worse.
 
Meanwhile Russia, perhaps a bit unfairly, only includes the top flight, but not the second division - this despite the fact that their third tier is rather hilariously known as the Professional Football League... even though most of the teams don't charge admission. That's because the "clubs" are often vanity projects for local mandarins. So yeah, the players are professional, but even in big cities like Lipetsk, or at formerly major clubs like Torpedo Moscow, they're playing in front of a few hundred who'll wander in and out as they please.
 
What I'm laboriously getting at is that I don't think gate receipts really matter in a lot of Europe, where funding comes almost exclusively from TV deals and political connections. Take a league that is included in this study as an example: Azerbaijan. That entire league is funded almost exclusively by oligarchs, not by fans, who pay a pittance when they pay at all.
 
And once again, this actually throws the Scots, English, Dutch etc. into better light, as in every Northern European country gate receipts - that is, the closest possible commercial contact between club and supporter - are integral to the professional nature of the game. Meanwhile if every pay-at-the-gate fan in most of Eastern Europe disappeared tomorrow (and if you look at leagues such as Bulgaria and Georgia, they basically have) it would change nothing.

Edited by TRVMP, 17 June 2019 - 07:41 PM.

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#25 TRVMP

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Posted 17 June 2019 - 07:49 PM

And finally, I don't think Scotland is a huge outlier as far as people only supporting big clubs goes. I think we're an outlier in terms of success of those clubs, and this is in large part because we have a massive history of professional football with strong gate receipts, not to mention the cultural dominance of Glasgow and the social/cultural reasons that everyone here is deeply familiar with.

 

But you think of countries all over the world and in almost every case, it's a few big clubs who dominate the public consciousness. In Serbia, everyone is a Red Star fan unless they're a Partizan fan, barring a few people in Novi Sad and the like. In Spain, even places like Valencia and Seville - with strong local teams with huge traditions - are crawling with Madridistas and Barca fans. In Peru, two capital clubs dominate, a third lags behind, and nobody else matters. In Portugal, it's not even a big three when you look at support - it's a big one, with Porto and then Sporting miles behind.

 
This is now a few years old but I think it's very instructive:
 
 
(If you look at this chart do so carefully: some of the teams don't match their country. For example, Man Utd are the most popular in Iceland and Sweden, as well as England.)

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Do you like Abba?


#26 TaunTon

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 06:41 AM

This is not laborious, it is both entertaining and educational with just a touch of the patented Nacho mania. 

 

Stick to this stuff rather than your 'Who wore odd socks in the 1999 League Cup Final*.

 

 

 

 

 

* the correct answer is nobody gives a fvck  


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#27 Hej

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 10:54 AM

https://www.european....co.uk/attn.htm

 

People attending game per 10,000 people (for countries with a minimum of 3 tiers worth of average attendance data for season 2017 & 2017/18)

 

 

37.15 - Scotland
16.07 - Norway 
15.86 - Switzerland
14.12 - Netherlands
13.53 - England
13.03 - Denmark
11.71 - Sweden
8.43 - Germany
7.97 - Spain
6.37 - Czech R.
5.59 - Italy
4.58 - France
3.36 - Estonia
3.23 - Poland
1.38 - Ukraine
1.19 - Russia
 
The same stat, but based on the top 3 tiers only for fairness
36.24 - Scotland
16.07 - Norway 
15.52 - Switzerland
13.47 - Netherlands
13.03 - Denmark
12.08 - England
11.49 - Sweden
8.24 - Germany
7.97 - Spain
6.37 - Czech R.
5.59 - Italy
4.58 - France
3.36 - Estonia
3.23 - Poland
1.38 - Ukraine
1.19 - Russia
 

 

I thought I rememberd England being a lot higher, admittedly.


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#28 Alibi

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 11:38 AM

It's Morton.  This thing about calling us Greenock Morton, even to the extent of having us under G in alphabetical order, is I think a comparatively recent thing.  We are called Greenock Morton only in the same way that the bigot brothers have Glasgow as a prefix to their names.


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#29 Hej

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 12:27 PM

It's Morton.  This thing about calling us Greenock Morton, even to the extent of having us under G in alphabetical order, is I think a comparatively recent thing.  We are called Greenock Morton only in the same way that the bigot brothers have Glasgow as a prefix to their names.

 

That's not true though. The official name of the club is Greenock Morton. Cetic and Rangers don't have have official prefixes. 


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#30 irnbru

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 12:29 PM

I quite like the Greenock part of the name to be honest.
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#31 TRVMP

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 12:35 PM

This is not laborious, it is both entertaining and educational with just a touch of the patented Nacho mania. 

 

Stick to this stuff rather than your 'Who wore odd socks in the 1999 League Cup Final*.

 

 

 

 

 

* the correct answer is nobody gives a fvck  

 

I can't think of anything more important than football trivia, personally. It is my life, my death, my resurrection. Today we're on SPAIN!

 

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#32 TRVMP

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 12:40 PM

That's not true though. The official name of the club is Greenock Morton. Cetic and Rangers don't have have official prefixes. 

 

This is correct, and the clumpany name since 1896 has been Greenock Morton Football and Athletic Club Ltd.

 

Although we should probably get rid of the athletic part.


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Do you like Abba?


#33 BishopLenBrennan

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 04:04 PM

This is correct, and the clumpany name since 1896 has been Greenock Morton Football and Athletic Club Ltd.

Although we should probably get rid of the athletic part.


Ahh yes. Established to stop young men in the Greenock area drinking and gambling on a Saturday. Oops.
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#34 TRVMP

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 05:11 PM

Well, in fairness, it does stop them from doing so in the Greenock area every *second* Saturday.
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#35 Alan_Partridge_Ton

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 06:28 PM

It’s not really misleading to exclude pointless youth sides that (presumably) don’t charge to watch games and certainly don’t rely on gate receipts. If your country’s footballing culture is too piss-poor to sustain that category then it’s rightly down to the pub league ranks you go.


Tomorrow we’ll be talking to Inverclyde’s youngest viking!
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#36 GiGi

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 10:41 PM

I quite like the Greenock part of the name to be honest.

 

Seconded. Let everycunt know where The Famous play.


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Peter Weatherson is the greatest player since Ritchie, and should be assigned 'chairman for life' 


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#37 LargsTON

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Posted 18 June 2019 - 11:09 PM

Seconded. Let everycunt know where The Famous play.


It hurts me when people I like call us The Famous.
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#38 capitanus

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Posted 19 June 2019 - 12:31 AM

Considering we are in the same league as the likes of Dundee United, who in our lifetime have appeared in European Finals and Semi-Finals, and have produced players like Sturrock, Narey, Gough, Gallacher, Hegarty, Malpas, McAlpine, Ferguson, Robertson and more - to call Morton 'the famous' only really serves to parody ourselves.
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#39 TRVMP

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Posted 19 June 2019 - 01:43 AM

Counterpoint: nobody outside of Scotland remembers that, just as 98% of Morton fans won't remember Mechelen, Bastia, Videoton, Carl Zeiss Jena, MTK, Gornik Zabrze, Zwickau, Waterschei*, Reims, Ujpest, or any other bin outfit to have made a semi-final or final in Europe.

 

*now merged into another one of those regen Belgian teams whose name sounds like a sneeze, I forget which and don't want to know.


Edited by TRVMP, 19 June 2019 - 01:46 AM.

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#40 GiGi

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Posted 19 June 2019 - 02:13 AM

It hurts me when people I like call us The Famous.

 

Mods, further conditioning required.


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Peter Weatherson is the greatest player since Ritchie, and should be assigned 'chairman for life' 


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