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What do we want?


capitanus

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This strikes me as an utter nonsense argument tbh. Firstly, a season ticket is a sunk cost - the idea that you stand to ‘lose’ money from games no longer taking place is a classic example of that logical fallacy. In fact, the majority of people - including those furloughed - will like end up saving money by virtue of not travelling to the game, not buying a pie, programme, seven pints etc. every fortnight.

 

 

 

But they're four games short of an 18 game season.

I think that between now and the next season starting, you will see several clubs throughout Scotland offering their supporters incentives along the lines of what was previously mentioned.

 

Only one particular club would have supporters so gormless enough to suggest that the money should be given to the clubs owners in order to cancel the pay debts accrued by and to themselves. I wonder what club that would be?

 

The idea that season ticket money is either i) available to be refunded or carried over to next season (it was spent long ago) or ii) going to enrich the Raes or any other club owner in the aftermath of this crisis is utterly detached from reality. This crisis is going to have a huge impact on Scottish football clubs long after the welcome government assistance schemes are in the rear view mirror. The idea that GMFC are in any position to dish out sweeteners (despite the business model of its parent company) to the fanbase is just daft. Everyone should be willing to accept the circumstances as they are while looking for the club to provide a credible ST package next season to all punters on an equal basis.

Aha, I see your motive here. You want everyone to get a cheaper season ticket as a result of this, and not just current season ticket holders. Aye, i'd go along with that too.

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The difference between paying for transport, pies, programmes and pints is that you would be getting those service/products in return for your money though. In the case of a season ticket, fans are getting 14/18 previously agreed fixtures.

 

As has been said by others elsewhere, how the club deal with any shortfall in monies is their problem- we've seen years of overspending and mismanagement that has seen the club to get to where it is just now and patience is running too thin for everyone to just say "ah, fuck it, help yourself to my money".

 

They may not be in the position to keep the fans sweet, but they may not be in the position not to, considering how popular the current regime is.

 

What I will say in the club's favour is that they've been good in helping folk out with away tickets in recent months but I doubt this has extended to every fan. Personally I don't want a refund for the four games, but writing it off without knowing what the club's stance on it is shouldn't really be an option for them. If we're not getting the matches out of it, then diluting the monies paid into a shareholding, no matter how small, for either the individuals or a fans' body or reducing the debt to the Rae's would be a satisfactory outcome for me.

 

 

I'm in the same position as Sammy and Paul, having paid £89 hospitality for the Dundee United game. That's on top of what works out as £66.67 for the four remaining games. Do you really expect folk not to ask for something, be it a refund, or replacement hospitality package for their £89? I expect that an alternative will be offered, but if any business thinks they can take £89 off someone and give them nothing in return because people are dying, they've got a seriously misplaced sense of their customers' generosity/stupidity.

I don't care enough to get into a debate mate. I'm just saying that had I paid for a season ticket i couldn't care less what happens from here on in with it. Morton are an absolute afterthought for me now.

"CORNBEEF IS A BELLEND"

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Partick down, Falkirk still down, no reconstruction promotion for the lecherous tuechatrs or Ayr, and a first visit to Tynecastle in about 40 years.

 

Ooft indeed.

Is this what's happening? Good stuff.

"CORNBEEF IS A BELLEND"

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Partick down, Falkirk still down, no reconstruction promotion for the lecherous tuechatrs or Ayr, and a first visit to Tynecastle in about 40 years.

 

Ooft indeed.

Is this what's happening? Good stuff.

Partick down!?!

 

Yep, that sounds good to me.

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Partick down, Falkirk still down, no reconstruction promotion for the lecherous tuechatrs or Ayr, and a first visit to Tynecastle in about 40 years.

 

Ooft indeed.

Hadn’t the SPFL left open the question of reconstruction as part of the original resolution?

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The difference between paying for transport, pies, programmes and pints is that you would be getting those service/products in return for your money though. In the case of a season ticket, fans are getting 14/18 previously agreed fixtures.

 

As has been said by others elsewhere, how the club deal with any shortfall in monies is their problem- we've seen years of overspending and mismanagement that has seen the club to get to where it is just now and patience is running too thin for everyone to just say "ah, fuck it, help yourself to my money".

 

They may not be in the position to keep the fans sweet, but they may not be in the position not to, considering how popular the current regime is.

 

What I will say in the club's favour is that they've been good in helping folk out with away tickets in recent months but I doubt this has extended to every fan. Personally I don't want a refund for the four games, but writing it off without knowing what the club's stance on it is shouldn't really be an option for them. If we're not getting the matches out of it, then diluting the monies paid into a shareholding, no matter how small, for either the individuals or a fans' body or reducing the debt to the Rae's would be a satisfactory outcome for me.

 

The ‘service/product denied’ argument is not applicable here. The season ended up lasting 14 home games instead of 18 due to circumstances entirely outwith the club’s control. That’s just tough. Your ticket is for that season only rather than an ‘18 game entry, use whenever you want’

flexipass. The original point was that people on furlough ‘couldn’t afford an £80 hit right now’, which is clearly nonsense because i) that money has already been paid out and ii) they’re already saving huge amounts on reduced leisure activities like football as it is right now.

 

I fail to see how anyone can argue in good faith that this is just going to be ‘the Rae’s problem’ and leave it at that. The economic shutdown imposed here stands to make the crash of 2008-09 look like a picnic by comparison; footballl clubs from Barcelona to Fort William are only now beginning to work out all the shocks to their business model that are coming down the chute from this. There’s also no guarantee that GC will survive this economic crisis either. And while I’m certainly not going to lose any sleep over some third generation Rae seeing their ill-deserved inheritance go down the swanny there is a significant chance that this football club is going to be a casualty from this mess from one cause or a multitude of them. Which makes the premise of this thread as daft as people trying to secure free drinks passes during the final moments of the Titanic’s voyage to make up for their inconvenience.

The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before..

 

So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are

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The ‘service/product denied’ argument is not applicable here. The season ended up lasting 14 home games instead of 18 due to circumstances entirely outwith the club’s control. That’s just tough. Your ticket is for that season only rather than an ‘18 game entry, use whenever you want’

flexipass. The original point was that people on furlough ‘couldn’t afford an £80 hit right now’, which is clearly nonsense because i) that money has already been paid out and ii) they’re already saving huge amounts on reduced leisure activities like football as it is right now.

I fail to see how anyone can argue in good faith that this is just going to be ‘the Rae’s problem’ and leave it at that. The economic shutdown imposed here stands to make the crash of 2008-09 look like a picnic by comparison; footballl clubs from Barcelona to Fort William are only now beginning to work out all the shocks to their business model that are coming down the chute from this. There’s also no guarantee that GC will survive this economic crisis either. And while I’m certainly not going to lose any sleep over some third generation Rae seeing their ill-deserved inheritance go down the swanny there is a significant chance that this football club is going to be a casualty from this mess from one cause or a multitude of them. Which makes the premise of this thread as daft as people trying to secure free drinks passes during the final moments of the Titanic’s voyage to make up for their inconvenience.

Good post.

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The ‘service/product denied’ argument is not applicable here. The season ended up lasting 14 home games instead of 18 due to circumstances entirely outwith the club’s control. That’s just tough. Your ticket is for that season only rather than an ‘18 game entry, use whenever you want’

flexipass. The original point was that people on furlough ‘couldn’t afford an £80 hit right now’, which is clearly nonsense because i) that money has already been paid out and ii) they’re already saving huge amounts on reduced leisure activities like football as it is right now.

 

I fail to see how anyone can argue in good faith that this is just going to be ‘the Rae’s problem’ and leave it at that. The economic shutdown imposed here stands to make the crash of 2008-09 look like a picnic by comparison; footballl clubs from Barcelona to Fort William are only now beginning to work out all the shocks to their business model that are coming down the chute from this. There’s also no guarantee that GC will survive this economic crisis either. And while I’m certainly not going to lose any sleep over some third generation Rae seeing their ill-deserved inheritance go down the swanny there is a significant chance that this football club is going to be a casualty from this mess from one cause or a multitude of them. Which makes the premise of this thread as daft as people trying to secure free drinks passes during the final moments of the Titanic’s voyage to make up for their inconvenience.

Agreed. 

 

Least of anyone's worries right now. 

TIME FOR CHANGE!

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The ‘service/product denied’ argument is not applicable here. The season ended up lasting 14 home games instead of 18 due to circumstances entirely outwith the club’s control. That’s just tough. Your ticket is for that season only rather than an ‘18 game entry, use whenever you want’

flexipass. The original point was that people on furlough ‘couldn’t afford an £80 hit right now’, which is clearly nonsense because i) that money has already been paid out and ii) they’re already saving huge amounts on reduced leisure activities like football as it is right now.

 

I fail to see how anyone can argue in good faith that this is just going to be ‘the Rae’s problem’ and leave it at that. The economic shutdown imposed here stands to make the crash of 2008-09 look like a picnic by comparison; footballl clubs from Barcelona to Fort William are only now beginning to work out all the shocks to their business model that are coming down the chute from this. There’s also no guarantee that GC will survive this economic crisis either. And while I’m certainly not going to lose any sleep over some third generation Rae seeing their ill-deserved inheritance go down the swanny there is a significant chance that this football club is going to be a casualty from this mess from one cause or a multitude of them. Which makes the premise of this thread as daft as people trying to secure free drinks passes during the final moments of the Titanic’s voyage to make up for their inconvenience.

Great post.

"CORNBEEF IS A BELLEND"

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The ‘service/product denied’ argument is not applicable here. The season ended up lasting 14 home games instead of 18 due to circumstances entirely outwith the club’s control. That’s just tough. Your ticket is for that season only rather than an ‘18 game entry, use whenever you want’

flexipass. The original point was that people on furlough ‘couldn’t afford an £80 hit right now’, which is clearly nonsense because i) that money has already been paid out and ii) they’re already saving huge amounts on reduced leisure activities like football as it is right now.

 

I fail to see how anyone can argue in good faith that this is just going to be ‘the Rae’s problem’ and leave it at that. The economic shutdown imposed here stands to make the crash of 2008-09 look like a picnic by comparison; footballl clubs from Barcelona to Fort William are only now beginning to work out all the shocks to their business model that are coming down the chute from this. There’s also no guarantee that GC will survive this economic crisis either. And while I’m certainly not going to lose any sleep over some third generation Rae seeing their ill-deserved inheritance go down the swanny there is a significant chance that this football club is going to be a casualty from this mess from one cause or a multitude of them. Which makes the premise of this thread as daft as people trying to secure free drinks passes during the final moments of the Titanic’s voyage to make up for their inconvenience.

I will stop short of saying it's a great post, however you have made very good points and put these across impeccably as ever. A lot of it is, however, based on speculation as you have no knowledge of what is likely to come 'down the chute' after the Pandemic passes. The economy may take some time to recover, and indeed economists may be forecasting recession to be the worst since the inter-war years, but they also said that about the last recession; and the one in the early nineties; plus the one in the early eighties etc. The one thing that is for certain is the Government Furlough Scheme which has been a lifeline for many at this time will have to be paid for by the taxpayers.

 

Whether or not Morton will be effected, or indeed, the Rae's other business interests is another matter altogether. What we are debating here is whether we should accept that only 14 of the 18 league games were played and write off the rest of outlay; should we get something off next year's season tickets or should the punters get a refund. Surely someone of your intellect should be able to get their head around these options. It's as easy as 1,2 or 3.

 

Agreed.

 

Least of anyone's worries right now.

Well if that's the case, so is wanting Falkirk to stay down, Partick to get relegated etc.

 

This is a forum for Morton supporters and it is an issue which will effect around 600 or so supporters, whether they are bothered about it or not. This is the right place to debate such a thing, and the question will get asked at some point unless we are denied the options.

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What I will say in the club's favour is that they've been

I'm in the same position as Sammy and Paul, having paid £89 hospitality for the Dundee United game. That's on top of what works out as £66.67 for the four remaining games. Do you really expect folk not to ask for something, be it a refund, or replacement hospitality package for their £89? I expect that an alternative will be offered, but if any business thinks they can take £89 off someone and give them nothing in return because people are dying, they've got a seriously misplaced sense of their customers' generosity/stupidity.

I had forgotten all about the Hospitality until you mentioned that, it's hard to imagine that was only four weeks ago as it seems a long time ago now. I reckon the club would probably offer an alternative game next season so I'm not worried about that.

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If you pay in advance for event tickets, which is what you're doing with a season ticket, then it's not at all unreasonable for people to be expecting some kind of recompense if they events don't happen. People are likely to be more forgiving when it comes to a football team, but it'd be a pretty bad look if any club didn't either offer some kind of reimbursement for this season or a discount on next season's price, and I don't think anybody who took a refund (if it was going) would be out of line either.

 

As for it being the least of people's worries, I'm not so sure. It's not particularly hard to envisage a set of circumstances in which somebody's lost their job and is desperate for money, which means paying for a luxury item that hasn't been delivered becomes an issue. £300 was a lot of money in one go without a finance scheme as it was, without not getting the full package you paid for.

 

If I had a season ticket I wouldn't be actively seeking out a refund, but I wouldn't be looking down on anyone who did either.

AWMSC

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If you pay in advance for event tickets, which is what you're doing with a season ticket, then it's not at all unreasonable for people to be expecting some kind of recompense if they events don't happen. People are likely to be more forgiving when it comes to a football team, but it'd be a pretty bad look if any club didn't either offer some kind of reimbursement for this season or a discount on next season's price, and I don't think anybody who took a refund (if it was going) would be out of line either.

 

As for it being the least of people's worries, I'm not so sure. It's not particularly hard to envisage a set of circumstances in which somebody's lost their job and is desperate for money, which makes paying for a luxury item that hasn't been delivered becomes an issue. £300 was a lot of money in one go without a finance scheme as it was, without not getting the full package you paid for.

 

If I had a season ticket I wouldn't be actively seeking out a refund, but I wouldn't be looking down on anyone who did either.

Have a greenie.

 

Next.

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I will stop short of saying it's a great post, however you have made very good points and put these across impeccably as ever. A lot of it is, however, based on speculation as you have no knowledge of what is likely to come 'down the chute' after the Pandemic passes. The economy may take some time to recover, and indeed economists may be forecasting recession to be the worst since the inter-war years, but they also said that about the last recession; and the one in the early nineties; plus the one in the early eighties etc. The one thing that is for certain is the Government Furlough Scheme which has been a lifeline for many at this time will have to be paid for by the taxpayers.

 

Whether or not Morton will be effected, or indeed, the Rae's other business interests is another matter altogether.

 

I suggest you read the OBR's economic forecast issued today to check your mebbes aye, mebbes no view on the impact of shutting down vast tracts of the country for the foreseeable future. And the impacts will be felt particularly badly in such a secondary leisure sector like Scottish professional football.

 

The sweeteners that Sky/BT etc. are offering their customers now will have to be paid for: and you can bet that it will be the tinpot tartan TV deal that will get slashed before those companies risk losing their English rights. Many of the sponsors that pay for hoardings around the grounds will likely not exist in six months' time, and even those that do survive will have other priorities for their remaining funds than sponsorship. And to top the lot, after much Helen Lovejoy hand-wringing by clowns in the media about how disgraceful it is for football clubs to accept money from gambling companies, the SPFL has now lost its Ladbrokes' sponsorship deal and so has to find a replacement deal this fucking summer in the midst of a catastrophic national downturn and global recession just to keep the wheels greased. The farcical handling of the last few days can only have added value to the Scottish football brand.

 

We are looking at a much broader and more serious financial crisis to hit Scottish football than the collapse of Setanta and GMFC is already not a going concern by anything other than the grace and favour of its parent company. That anyone thinks that there could never mind should be a nice wee goodwill gesture to season ticket holders in the midst of this crisis is completely batshit mental.

 

What we are debating here is whether we should accept that only 14 of the 18 league games were played and write off the rest of outlay; should we get something off next year's season tickets or should the punters get a refund. Surely someone of your intellect should be able to get their head around these options. It's as easy as 1,2 or 3.

 

 

The facts as outlined above and in the previous post render two of those three debate points redundant.

The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before..

 

So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are

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If you pay in advance for event tickets, which is what you're doing with a season ticket, then it's not at all unreasonable for people to be expecting some kind of recompense if they events don't happen. People are likely to be more forgiving when it comes to a football team, but it'd be a pretty bad look if any club didn't either offer some kind of reimbursement for this season or a discount on next season's price, and I don't think anybody who took a refund (if it was going) would be out of line either.

 

 

Except that the event did in fact happen: the clue is in the term 'season ticket' and not '18 home games ticket'. That a handful of (in our case) dead rubber fixtures were not fulfilled due to circumstances completely outwith the club's control is neither here nor there: the 19/20 season has taken place and anyone who bought a ST had full access to those fixtures at Cappielow.

 

As for it being the least of people's worries, I'm not so sure. It's not particularly hard to envisage a set of circumstances in which somebody's lost their job and is desperate for money, which means paying for a luxury item that hasn't been delivered becomes an issue. £300 was a lot of money in one go without a finance scheme as it was, without not getting the full package you paid for.

 

 

If they've got a time machine that can take them back to June 2019 when the money was actually paid then they should just be putting their life savings into health stocks rather than trying to cancel their ST. That outlay nine months ago is completely irrelevant to their job/economic situation now: it is the very definition of a sunk cost that a logical person is compelled to write off.

The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before..

 

So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are

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