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Think what you want, we’re all entitled to our own opinions, eh?

 

What are, in your opinion, the serious flaws which haven’t been covered yet?

 

Schemes like this will always have teething problems and there will be issues which will gradually get ironed out as it progresses. You seem to be going out your way to get ripped right into it though. Continually referring to it as “hairbrained”, claiming the guys running it are making it up as they go along, mocking the fact they’ve got a few ex-players on board to try and promote the scheme etc etc.

 

You’re getting very wound up at a scheme where another Morton fan has actually got off his arse and trying to make a change.

This. Why not venture down on Saturday and ask the plethora of questions you have? The guys are obviously trying to be transparent.

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Can you name them? Im not aware of any of those people being involved.

Of course he can’t name them- they don’t wish to be named, as stated on MCT’s website, in spite of Mr McLennan telling us there are no secrets. That’s no failing on Paul’s part.

 

 

I'll be honest with you; that's exactly how I'm interpreting your posts on the matter. £2.50 a week is a small price to pay even with any reservations you may have.

I’m surprised that you have an issue with pertinent questions being raised about this. I understand that it might come across as tedious, but there’s absolutely nothing wrong with doing a bit of digging in order to find out where your money’s going, even if it is only a tenner a month.

 

If a penny of my money goes towards someone like Danny Goodwin or Scott Gillan getting a blazer, a comfy seat in the stand and a role that could involve decision making at Cappielow one day, then it’s a penny I’ll rue.

 

I’d much prefer that difficult questions are asked at this point than a couple of years down the line when some Nigerian conman gets on the phone to MCT after all the fun he had with Hamilton Accies and whips out half a million quid worth of our hard-earned.

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I'll be honest with you; that's exactly how I'm interpreting your posts on the matter. £2.50 a week is a small price to pay even with any reservations you may have.

£2.50 a week is way too much to pay per week for something which I have reservations about. There is no point in even attempting to 'shame' me into participating in this, it won't happen.

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There’s liferally nothing stopping anyone setting up their own version of MCT. I think things like the pledge thing not working were beyond amateurish, but it’s not competing against something more worthwhile - the Trust is dead and the GC budget to Morton is cut in any case.

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Think what you want, we’re all entitled to our own opinions, eh?

 

 

Yes we are all entitled to our opinions, even you. As a Morton supporter, I am part of the natural constituency and/or target audience for this fundraising appeal/scheme, therefore I am perfectly entitled to be cynical if I see things which are seriously flawed with this idea.

 

What are, in your opinion, the serious flaws which haven’t been covered yet?

 

 

A major one, which is evident in various places in the website: https://mortonclubtogether.com

 

The website implies that anyone pledging becomes an investor and shareholder in Greenock Morton Football Club. However, with this scheme the recipient or beneficiary of any 'gifted' shareholdings in GMFC would be Morton Club Together (MCT). No individual person(s) who have pledged monies will become shareholders in GMFC through taking part in this scheme. There is references to 'investors', 'shareholdings' 'shareholders' and things like 'own a stake in the club for as little as £10 a month' which all imply that the person pledging money would own shares in Morton as a result. However, this clearly isn't the case, MCT will be the shareholders and not the individual pledgers.

 

If they have a legal expert 'looking into things' for them, he would do very well by starting to look at some of the wording used on the website as it could be very misleading for someone less inquisitive or as 'cynical' as myself. It could save them from getting into bother with the Financial Conduct Authority at a later date.

 

I seem to have a far better grasp on what is being proposed with this scheme than most folk on here.

 

 

Schemes like this will always have teething problems and there will be issues which will gradually get ironed out as it progresses. You seem to be going out your way to get ripped right into it though. Continually referring to it as “hairbrained”, claiming the guys running it are making it up as they go along, mocking the fact they’ve got a few ex-players on board to try and promote the scheme etc etc.

 

 

Why didn't they get the teething problems and issues ironed out before the come asking for our money?

 

As for ex-players etc. Giving it their endorsement - I doubt very much that they understand the full proposal either. Therefore their endorsement isn't worth the oxygen that it's spoken with.

 

 

You’re getting very wound up at a scheme where another Morton fan has actually got off his arse and trying to make a change.

You seem to get wound up any time I appear on this messageboard. Good.

 

Although I doubt very much that I will ever be Stuart Duncan's favourite person, he had done a very good job in devising the GMST in an era when supporters Trusts were in their infancy, and the organisation was very successful up to a point.

 

The blueprint is there. The guy doesn't need to reinvent the wheel. Learn from the mistakes of the past and we have a winner.

 

This. Why not venture down on Saturday and ask the plethora of questions you have? The guys are obviously trying to be transparent.

Why not bother my arse going to a Rugby Club in the Arse-end of nowhere when I could do far better things with my life on a Saturday night when the Champions League Final is being played.

 

If 'The guys are obviously trying to be transparent' then Toby's question surely merits an answer.

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There’s liferally nothing stopping anyone setting up their own version of MCT. I think things like the pledge thing not working were beyond amateurish, but it’s not competing against something more worthwhile - the Trust is dead and the GC budget to Morton is cut in any case.

Then it becomes like 'The People's Front of Judea', 'The Judean People's Front' etc.

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Who are the GMST members you believe to be involved?

Of course he can’t name them- they don’t wish to be named, as stated on MCT’s website, in spite of Mr McLennan telling us there are no secrets. That’s no failing on Paul’s part.

 

 

I sent our young friend a PM earlier this evening. Some of the 'I know something that you don't' clique were all over this early doors. Which makes you suspect that either them or their cohorts had prior knowledge or involvement to this scheme before the rest of us non-Leadership types.

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Yes we are all entitled to our opinions, even you. As a Morton supporter, I am part of the natural constituency and/or target audience for this fundraising appeal/scheme, therefore I am perfectly entitled to be cynical if I see things which are seriously flawed with this idea.

 

 

A major one, which is evident in various places in the website: https://mortonclubtogether.com

 

The website implies that anyone pledging becomes an investor and shareholder in Greenock Morton Football Club. However, with this scheme the recipient or beneficiary of any 'gifted' shareholdings in GMFC would be Morton Club Together (MCT). No individual person(s) who have pledged monies will become shareholders in GMFC through taking part in this scheme. There is references to 'investors', 'shareholdings' 'shareholders' and things like 'own a stake in the club for as little as £10 a month' which all imply that the person pledging money would own shares in Morton as a result. However, this clearly isn't the case, MCT will be the shareholders and not the individual pledgers.

 

If they have a legal expert 'looking into things' for them, he would do very well by starting to look at some of the wording used on the website as it could be very misleading for someone less inquisitive or as 'cynical' as myself. It could save them from getting into bother with the Financial Conduct Authority at a later date.

 

I seem to have a far better grasp on what is being proposed with this scheme than most folk on here.

 

 

 

Why didn't they get the teething problems and issues ironed out before the come asking for our money?

 

As for ex-players etc. Giving it their endorsement - I doubt very much that they understand the full proposal either. Therefore their endorsement isn't worth the oxygen that it's spoken with.

 

 

 

You seem to get wound up any time I appear on this messageboard. Good.

 

Although I doubt very much that I will ever be Stuart Duncan's favourite person, he had done a very good job in devising the GMST in an era when supporters Trusts were in their infancy, and the organisation was very successful up to a point.

 

The blueprint is there. The guy doesn't need to reinvent the wheel. Learn from the mistakes of the past and we have a winner.

 

 

Why not bother my arse going to a Rugby Club in the Arse-end of nowhere when I could do far better things with my life on a Saturday night when the Champions League Final is being played.

 

If 'The guys are obviously trying to be transparent' then Toby's question surely merits an answer.

Ignorance is bliss. There's an email address you can send emails to with questions..theres twitter and Facebook too.

 

Seems some just dont really want to support it at any cost, which of course is their prerogative.

 

Again, its far from the finished product, but here we have a fan (with no ties to GMST) trying to do something on the back of being totally scunnered with Morton. Much like 90% of us.

 

As far as I'm aware, the usual suspects from the trust who you seem so concerned about aren't involved. Again though, you could email and ask. Or attend the Q&A.

TIME FOR CHANGE!

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Again, its far from the finished product, but here we have a fan (with no ties to GMST) trying to do something on the back of being totally scunnered with Morton. Much like 90% of us.

 

Really not sure where you're getting that from, as MCT's vision as stated on its website is all about chipping in to support the club in a scheme drawn up in obvious coordination with Crawford Rae himself. There's no talk of changing ownership, no talk about taking the club in a new direction. 

 

That doesn't make the scheme worthless, but there's no evidence that MCT's leadership are 'totally scunnered' with the club at all. They simply want to put in more money to keep the current show on the road. 

Edited by vikingTON
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The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before..

 

So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are

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Wrong.

 

The whole idea came about because one guy was scunnered reading the scaremongering stories, lack of any sort of plans for external investment and having listened to the nonsense spoken at the Q&A not that long ago. That's straight from the horses mouth

 

So yes, that's exactly what prompted him to give this a go.

 

Edit: scunnered much like the rest of us but he had a bit of bottle to actually get of his arse and give it a go. I'd say over 250 pledges, totalling over 100k, is not to bad a start for something that many are disregarding because the website is a shanner.

Edited by TONofmemories

TIME FOR CHANGE!

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Here is the evidence from the source itself, from the MCT's initial Q and A on 27 April:

 

https://mortonclubtogether.com/QuestionAndAnswer.html

 

Q3. How will the new investment be used?
 
A. All money raised through Morton Club Together will be used by Greenock Morton Football Club to invest in projects that strengthen the capabilities and profitability of Morton. Ultimately the aim is to support the Morton First Team to improve performances on the park and increase the benefits that this brings for all stakeholders in Morton. This is Morton’s primary business.
 
In short, Morton Club Together will support and drive forward “The Morton Way.”
 
Q4. What about the Youth Academy and the Greenock Morton Community Trust (GMCT)?
 
A. Both are integral to The Morton Way model. They are critical aspects to engage the local community, for Morton to “give back” and to create a pathway for local young people to move towards being first team players and/or active members of the Morton community.
 
The Morton Way depends on some of the young Morton players, the vast majority of whom live in Inverclyde, graduating to the first team and, in some cases, furthering their careers by being sold to other clubs. Morton Club Together and the Morton Board believe that this outcome benefits the young players, their families, the Inverclyde and wider communities and all stakeholders of Greenock Morton Football Club.
 
Q21. What happens if Morton Club Together fails to reach the £400,000 pledging target by the end of May 2019, or if another major independent investor comes in during the MCT pledging phase?
 
A.
If this project fails, the current Board and shareholders of Greenock Morton Football Club will need to find an alternative solution to the financial challenges currently facing the club. Morton Club Together and the current Morton Board are under no illusion that the lack of immediate and major new investment will quickly lead to the continued regression of Greenock Morton on and off the park, and ultimately the real possibility that the club will cease to exist.

 


The clear purpose of MCT's fundraising then is to fill in a hole in the first team budget that GC had just so happened to announce just a few weeks prior to its launch. MCT also buys into the current, harebrained idea that youth development is key to the sustainability of GMFC, as well as the claptrap peddled by the Community Trust on a regular basis. Voluntarily, not out of pragmatism. 
 
There are no parts of the existing structure that MCT or its leadership have criticised or wish to set aside. And its Q and A handily concludes with a confirmation that:
 
Morton Club Together and the current Morton Board are working in partnership to achieve the common goal of delivering The Morton Way. This means a sustainable, viable, successful Greenock Morton that delivers positive outcomes on and off the park, which everyone involved and engaged in the Morton community can be proud of. 

 

 

So this scheme is quite clearly the product of someone who is seeking an active partnership with the club and its current custodians to simply do existing policies better, rather 'being totally scunnered' at all then. 

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The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before..

 

So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are

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Wrong again. You're not listening whatsoever - but that's not new.

 

The idea came about becsuse he was fed up with the apparent lack of effort from Morton. Hence this plan for some kind of external investment.

 

Now that its up and running of course the plan is to work in tandem with Morton, but that doesn't mean that it didnt come about as a result of being scunnered.

 

Stop being obtuse for the absolute sake of it.

TIME FOR CHANGE!

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Ignorance is bliss. There's an email address you can send emails to with questions..theres twitter and Facebook too.

 

Seems some just dont really want to support it at any cost, which of course is their prerogative.

 

Again, its far from the finished product, but here we have a fan (with no ties to GMST) trying to do something on the back of being totally scunnered with Morton. Much like 90% of us.

 

As far as I'm aware, the usual suspects from the trust who you seem so concerned about aren't involved. Again though, you could email and ask. Or attend the Q&A.

I already have asked, and got papped off to look through Twitter for my answers. When I eventually did, I discovered that there are members of Leadership Team that aren’t prepared to reveal who they are. That isn’t transparent.

 

Not wishing to blow my own trumpet, but you know both Paul and myself very well. His attitude to Morton is a lot more “take or leave” than my own- I’m far more of a diehard than he is, yet I’m also of the view that there’s something that really doesn’t sit easy with all this.

 

Why are MCT making it so difficult to find answers to some relatively straight forward questions?

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Could it be that these people are quite happy to sit in the background as a silent contributor? Perhaps these people are not even Morton fans, but business colleagues of Graham's?

 

I don't see what's so wrong with them not being named if that was the case.

 

I don't believe there's a hidden agenda here.

TIME FOR CHANGE!

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Everybody is different and has their own views/agendas, but I genuinely couldn’t care less about the volunteers working away in the background who do not wish to be named. No way would it stop me from pledging a minimum £2.50 per week to the club - it’s not going into their pockets.

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Oh really? Here is line fucking one of its launch material:

 

 

So much for being sick of scaremongering stories then: MCT made them front and centre in its initial pledge appeal and also helpfully managed to spray them around in the national press as well.

 

 

Such as? After all MCT has already established a close relationship with Crawford Rae and has freely declared its support for the vision of 'sutainability' set out by the club - with a Braeside La Masia and the Community Trust's nonsense at the heart of it. The only thing that MCT objects to - going by its public declarations - is the fact that there's not enough money to execute the current board's strategy, hence their intervention. There's no vision of radical change at all.

 

 

Once again, I'm not interested in hearsay or running commentaries on what MCT or its leadership really think or what their true motivations are. The purpose and claims made by this organisation are far too important to depend on that cliquey, Trust-level form of communication. I am going to rely solely on the statements that they have made in the public domain and are published on their own website. That is the official record of what the organisation stands for and it is on that basis that people should choose whether to invest or not. And there is absolutely nothing there to suggest that the founder of MCT or anyone else in their leadership group are disillusioned with the way that the club has been run, other than the money not being there to see it through.

Ok, you must know better than Graham himself why he decided to get up and attempt this. Of course you do.

TIME FOR CHANGE!

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Wrong again. You're not listening whatsoever - but that's not new.

 

The idea came about becsuse he was fed up with the apparent lack of effort from Morton. Hence this plan for some kind of external investment.

 

An external investment group that just so happens to support the club's current business model in its entirety, so clearly not 'scunnered' by much at all other than learning from a doe-eyed Crawford a few weeks ago that the IOU money had finally run out. 

 

Now that its up and running of course the plan is to work in tandem with Morton, but that doesn't mean that it didnt come about as a result of being scunnered.
 
Stop being obtuse for the absolute sake of it.

 

 

Of course MCT has to work with the current board in practice, no-one is saying that it shouldn't. But there is a difference between forming a working relationship with GMFC and voluntarily declaring everything that the club is already doing to be an integral part of this so-called 'Morton Way' as well. Nobody forced MCT or its leaders to commit to a terrible model of youth-development for sporting success and profit, nor to back fundamentally useless hanger-on groups like the Community Trust. They didn't have to comment on those aspects of club policy at this stage in the process, but chose to do so because their ideas are fundamentally the same as what iron Man has been peddling over the past few years.

 

To be clear, I don't think that entirely discredits what MCT is trying to do - good things can still be achieved now in spite of quibbles with their vision of the club's future - but people need to understand what kind of organisation and leadership they are buying into. And this must be based on MCT's published facts and statements instead of whatever verbal claims that they want to make in private; that's not going to wash I'm afraid. 

Edited by vikingTON
  • Upvote 1

The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before..

 

So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are

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Ok, you must know better than Graham himself why he decided to get up and attempt this. Of course you do.

 

If 'Graham' - I see you're already on first name terms - wishes to clarify his motivation or MCT's position on the club's strategy then he should do so on the organisation's website, and explain why the claims made in the launch and Q and A sessions turned out to be utter bollocks as well. I really couldn't care less what he is willing to tell people in private.

  • Upvote 1

The site is supposed to be a place for the extended 'family' of Morton supporters - having an affinity with people that you don't know, because you share a love of your local football club. It's not supposed to be about point scoring and showing how 'clever' or 'funny' you are, or just being downright rude and offensive to people you don't know, because you can get away with it. Unfortunately, it seems the classic case of people who have little standing/presence in real life, use this forum as a way of making themselves feel as if they are something. It's sad, and I've said that before..

 

So, having been on Morton forums for about 15 years I guess, I've had enough... well done t*ssers, another Morton supporter driven away. You can all feel happy at how 'clever' you are

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