Deano1874 Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 Despite both being nuclear-filled backwaters, I reckon Vladimir is more concerned with Ukraine than Helensburgh. 26/4/18 A Decade of Wakeism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoon Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 The Daily Mail & The Express already shit-stirring. They're once again going to be an issue, particularly in brainwashing the elderly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRVMP Posted March 15, 2017 Author Share Posted March 15, 2017 The Daily Mail & The Express already s***-stirring. They're once again going to be an issue, particularly in brainwashing the elderly. They need to be discredited. "Project Fear" was a good rhetorical effort at this last time around. This time it needs to be something much harder. edit: you can't use "fake news" - which has been turned around against its originators here in brilliant fashion - because it's too closely associated with Trump and Scots generally hate Trump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoon Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 They need to be discredited. "Project Fear" was a good rhetorical effort at this last time around. This time it needs to be something much harder. Indeed. The people that still read them, the elderly, have to be somehow told in no uncertain terms it is complete and utter nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRVMP Posted March 15, 2017 Author Share Posted March 15, 2017 Indeed. The people that still read them, the elderly, have to be somehow told in no uncertain terms it is complete and utter nonsense. Ridicule is the most powerful weapon. I mean, I'm sitting here on the verge of tears about the Telegraph's headline ("Sturgeon abandons bid to stay in the EU"). They backed Leave, what the fuck are they complaining about? But getting indignant and trying to counter the arguments won't get anyone anywhere. Mercilessly making fun of the media which has predicted most things wrongly over the last few years is the way to go. Hit 'em where it hurts. The ITK journalists know fuck all and they work for a couple of weirdos who live in a castle on an island, like Mr. Burns' wet dream. Fuck 'em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinwoodTON Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 The Daily Mail & The Express already s***-stirring. They're once again going to be an issue, particularly in brainwashing the elderly. Just because the elderly have different opinions than younger people doesn't mean that they're being brainwashed. If anything, it's the younger generation that are being brainwashed, on both sides. <span style='font-size: 14px;'><em class='bbc'>"That LinwoodTon's a c*nt, eh?"</em></span> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoon Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 Just because the elderly have different opinions than younger people doesn't mean that they're being brainwashed. If anything, it's the younger generation that are being brainwashed, on both sides. I'm not talking about their political views, I'm talking about them buying into the often fabricated nonsense on the front of rags like the Daily Mail & The Express. These people aren't bothering to research or look for anything that backs up what they're being fed, I'd argue younger people are more inclined to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cet Homme Charmant Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 Ridicule is the most powerful weapon. Hmmm, not so sure, it didn't seem to stop Trump, surely one of the most satirised and ridiculed politicians in history, from being elected. I think the Yes campaign will have to be a lot more sophisticated than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoon Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 Sturgeon has already started making wee jokes on Twitter. She's divisive enough as it is (Not as much as Salmond mind) so it may be in her best interests to remain professional until the economic and EU plans have been clearly outlined. Yes has to be a lot more serious in general this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinwoodTON Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 I'm not talking about their political views, I'm talking about them buying into the often fabricated nonsense on the front of rags like the Daily Mail & The Express. These people aren't bothering to research or look for anything that backs up what they're being fed, I'd argue younger people are more inclined to. Are you talking about all old people or just the stupid old people? <span style='font-size: 14px;'><em class='bbc'>"That LinwoodTon's a c*nt, eh?"</em></span> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRVMP Posted March 15, 2017 Author Share Posted March 15, 2017 Hmmm, not so sure, it didn't seem to stop Trump, surely one of the most satirised and ridiculed politicians in history, from being elected. I think the Yes campaign will have to be a lot more sophisticated than that. Most of the satire leveled against Trump was weak and it was also coming from the establishment side. That's not ridicule as much as it is a targeted hit, and it alienated a lot of normies. A good example is when Hillary Clinton (or, during one of her not-infrequent, unexplained absences from the public sphere) tweeted "Delete your account" at The Donald. As one, as one voice - it really had to be experienced to be believed - the *entire center-left media* had this as the number one headline, pronounced it the most brutal takedown in history and so on. A full-court press. But when it's so clearly contrived like this it loses its power, because most normies can see that when the mainstream media and Hollywood is doing something, it's not ridicule, it's a naked display of power. (I parted ways with American liberalism a couple of years ago after they made clear their contempt for actual Americans, but I watched with interest as they styled themselves the plucky underdogs during the election, the 'resistance' tag being key to their worldview, landing us in the quite absurd situation where liberals will cheer the CIA while listening to the Hamilton soundtrack. But that's another story.) I'm talking about meme warfare here, not a writers' room where everyone drives a Tesla and has a future. The lampooning of Trump was, for the most part, shrill and piss-weak because it lacked authenticity. And it lacked authenticity because the glorified hall monitors of American liberal orthodoxy are the ones with the levers of power. You can't really deploy satire when you're the one in charge (and, culturally speaking, they remain in charge regardless of who is in the White House. For now. Politics is downstream from culture, so this will change.) I'm telling you, I've seen this happen firsthand - if you can get into a journalist's head you can do amazing stuff with it. Edit: to be clear, though, I'm talking about what a layperson should do, not the campaign. I expect the campaign to have good cops and bad cops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRVMP Posted March 15, 2017 Author Share Posted March 15, 2017 Sturgeon has already started making wee jokes on Twitter. She's divisive enough as it is (Not as much as Salmond mind) so it may be in her best interests to remain professional until the economic and EU plans have been clearly outlined. Yes has to be a lot more serious in general this time. Yes could publish proof that base metals can be transmuted into gold and the cultural gatekeepers of the UK would turn it against them. Stop playing by the rules of people who want you to lose. Why do you think 'the economic argument' has been memed into existence as the be-all end-all? Answer: because it's a shell game. You can produce the best answer ever and it'll be batted away by 'uncertainty.' why are you accepting your opponent's frame? The UK smart set was wrong about austerity, wrong about Brexit, wrong about Greece, and you still want to let them set the terms of debate? Bypass and ridicule! The only way to win is not to play. Now, there ARE limits to this. The currency issue - as something genuinely uncertain and tangible - needs to be addressed. But I'm telling you now, the response to any Yes economic plan is already written, and it's not positive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoon Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 Are you talking about all old people or just the stupid old people? The ones that are so set in their ways they won't even entertain the idea of an independent Scotland. The thing is, those that read The Mail & Express are probably voting No, just as those that read the National are voting Yes. There's not going to be many that are undecided reading these papers. That's why the Mail can produce as much horseshit as it likes, so long as it fits in with what their readers already believe it won't be questioned. I don't really know how Yes counters this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoon Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 Yes could publish proof that base metals can be transmuted into gold and the cultural gatekeepers of the UK would turn it against them. Stop playing by the rules of people who want you to lose. Why do you think 'the economic argument' has been memed into existence as the be-all end-all? Answer: because it's a shell game. You can produce the best answer ever and it'll be batted away by 'uncertainty.' why are you accepting your opponent's frame? The UK smart set was wrong about austerity, wrong about Brexit, wrong about Greece, and you still want to let them set the terms of debate? Bypass and ridicule! The only way to win is not to play. Now, there ARE limits to this. The currency issue - as something genuinely uncertain and tangible - needs to be addressed. But I'm telling you now, the response to any Yes economic plan is already written, and it's not positive. Yeah, pretty much this. You could beam "They're lying yo you" onto the moon and it wouldn't resonate with Mail readers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRVMP Posted March 15, 2017 Author Share Posted March 15, 2017 Indeed. The people that still read them, the elderly, have to be somehow told in no uncertain terms it is complete and utter nonsense. The ones that are so set in their ways they won't even entertain the idea of an independent Scotland. The thing is, those that read The Mail & Express are probably voting No, just as those that read the National are voting Yes. There's not going to be many that are undecided reading these papers. That's why the Mail can produce as much horses*** as it likes, so long as it fits in with what their readers already believe it won't be questioned. I don't really know how Yes counters this. You answered your own question already. The role of the printed press isn't to inform. It's to promote a narrative. Destroy the narrative. Don't accept its premise (stop lying awake at night thinking about "the economic argument" as if the articles about house prices and social services haven't already been written with a couple of find-and-replace spots left open for dates.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRVMP Posted March 15, 2017 Author Share Posted March 15, 2017 Yeah, pretty much this. You could beam "They're lying yo you" onto the moon and it wouldn't resonate with Mail readers. Then stop worrying about what the Mail is telling you to worry about. The Daily Mail is a website for people who ogle 16-year-old girls. Bypass and ridicule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoon Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 Then stop worrying about what the Mail is telling you to worry about. The Daily Mail is a website for people who ogle 16-year-old girls. Bypass and ridicule. Someone get Big Eck Salmond some TV time and let him do it, as smugly as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRVMP Posted March 15, 2017 Author Share Posted March 15, 2017 Someone get Big Eck Salmond some TV time and let him do it, as smugly as possible. Now you're talking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano1874 Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 Christ no. Salmond needs to stay out of this campaign. 26/4/18 A Decade of Wakeism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoon Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 Christ no. Salmond needs to stay out of this campaign. Agreed. Far too divisive a figure. Sturgeon less so, I think she'd be less condescending during debates as well. (Salmond should still have his own TV show ridiculing No voters though) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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