irnbru Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 The fact they are talking about £30 million plus transfer reserves while they haven't paid creditors should mean they are kicked out of the league. It will be an absolute disgrace if they are allowed to get away with paying back a small percentage of what they owe while getting funds in place to buy in new players. If the money is there then they should be using it to pay the people they own. Edit to add- now that they are arranging foreign trips for preseason I assume they will be paying their bills now http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/...86908-23870306/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrissiboi Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-18148818 The who's who of the EBT's greedy players .... nothing to Mr Murray !!! £6.3 million http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-18179264 More dodgy shenanigans with Duff and Phelps. The whole affair stinks , one crooked link to another Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 I see somerangers fan saying where is the BBC's proof but there is no way the legal team would let it run without evidence "Boy, I got vision, and the rest of the world wears bifocals." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrissiboi Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 I see somerangers fan saying where is the BBC's proof but there is no way the legal team would let it run without evidence For ever fiver Celtic spend i'll spend a tenner of the Bank of Scotland's money. Totally damning of the whole Murray empire and a realisation that these so called captain's of industry caused the financial crisis we are in. This goes beyond Rangers and their debt MIH owed almost a billion pounds to HBOS. Duped by Whyte, pull the other one , escape route for Murray. Whyte, Duff & Phelps the whole lot needs to have a full inquiry too many previous links to be a coincidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Included in the EBT list, Campbell Ogilve. Chairman of the S.F.A. Claiming that he thought it was all above board. What a crock of sh it. He should be the first ****er to fall on his sword. Five Star Removal's call 01888 1888 88. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BishopTon Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 The BBC program, was in the style of a Micheal Moore film, oversimplified and full of infrerred "facts". It is wholly possible/allegedly a previous chairmain bought Greenock Morton with funds from the Derek Lilley transfer to Leeds, which is close to what Craig Whyte possibly has done at Rangers with regard to the ticketus money. But the way these guys work there is always enough smoke and mirrors for everyone to see whats going on but just not be able to prove it, beyond reasonable doubt.. I would suggest that in regard to most of the 100 or so trusts Rangers will have no case to answer pre 2010, there will only be a few where written evidence has been recorded i.e ronald waterus/sascha papac and Martin Bain, that they could possibly be found guilty. Possibly the only debt they may be left with is the 10 million PAYE plus a fine for the provable EBT violations. Which another knight will come and payoff(maybe with a loan from HBOS :-)) in as inevitably Green will disappear in the next few weeks and the SPL/SFA will let Rangers sign players over 18 at the last moment "for the good of Scottish football" and Rangers will be fine by 2014... Just bounce if you hate St Mirren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrissiboi Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 The BBC program, was in the style of a Micheal Moore film, oversimplified and full of infrerred "facts". It is wholly possible/allegedly a previous chairmain bought Greenock Morton with funds from the Derek Lilley transfer to Leeds, which is close to what Craig Whyte possibly has done at Rangers with regard to the ticketus money. But the way these guys work there is always enough smoke and mirrors for everyone to see whats going on but just not be able to prove it, beyond reasonable doubt.. I would suggest that in regard to most of the 100 or so trusts Rangers will have no case to answer pre 2010, there will only be a few where written evidence has been recorded i.e ronald waterus/sascha papac and Martin Bain, that they could possibly be found guilty. Possibly the only debt they may be left with is the 10 million PAYE plus a fine for the provable EBT violations. Which another knight will come and payoff(maybe with a loan from HBOS :-)) in as inevitably Green will disappear in the next few weeks and the SPL/SFA will let Rangers sign players over 18 at the last moment "for the good of Scottish football" and Rangers will be fine by 2014... I think you are over simplifying things, Rangers is a test case so HMRC have more than this case to think about and the actions they accept can have ramifications in other cases. The BBC website shows those with cover notes refering to their EBT's but HMRC will be pushing that there is/was enough circumstantial evidence to presume all those payments were improper. If even one of those cases is proved then it breaks the rules of player registry with the SPL /SFA which is bringing the game into direpute / deception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrissiboi Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Included in the EBT list, Campbell Ogilve. Chairman of the S.F.A. Claiming that he thought it was all above board. What a crock of sh it. He should be the first ****er to fall on his sword. Five Star Removal's call 01888 1888 88. His position is untenable. i know nothing but not asking pertinent questions begs the question of whether he is of the quality needed to be Chairman of the SFA , which has to beyond reproach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasta Ton Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 My understanding is that HMRC already know the outcome of the EBT tribunal and are withholding its release to prong Rangers suffering and by doing so set an example to others that if they don't settle up when HMRC come calling they will torture you out of business. It's worth remembering that Rangers offered HMRC a sizeable amount to make it go away back in 2010 but HMRC said settle in full or else. HmRC know this is a can of worms and want to make an example ahead of considering any deals. FIRST DIVISION RUNNERS UP 2012/13 Hey Man - Enough of your Stupidness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonsilitis Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 The BBC program, was in the style of a Micheal Moore film, oversimplified and full of infrerred "facts". It is wholly possible/allegedly a previous chairmain bought Greenock Morton with funds from the Derek Lilley transfer to Leeds, which is close to what Craig Whyte possibly has done at Rangers with regard to the ticketus money. But the way these guys work there is always enough smoke and mirrors for everyone to see whats going on but just not be able to prove it, beyond reasonable doubt.. I would suggest that in regard to most of the 100 or so trusts Rangers will have no case to answer pre 2010, there will only be a few where written evidence has been recorded i.e ronald waterus/sascha papac and Martin Bain, that they could possibly be found guilty. Possibly the only debt they may be left with is the 10 million PAYE plus a fine for the provable EBT violations. Which another knight will come and payoff(maybe with a loan from HBOS :-)) in as inevitably Green will disappear in the next few weeks and the SPL/SFA will let Rangers sign players over 18 at the last moment "for the good of Scottish football" and Rangers will be fine by 2014... I think that there are a couple of key things came out 1) Rangers were using EBT's for regular contractual payments, something they are not designed for. 2) It would appear that details of player remuneration was not properly disclosed to the football authorities 3) Duff and Phelps have a prima facie case to answer in terms of being conflicted and should not have taken the case. I do wonder , however, why BBC picked an expert from a relatively small firm in Bristol? Why not use a recognised Scottish expert or maybe someone recommended by the Institute of Chartered Accountants of Scotland. The whole thing stinks of a setup though and it should be borne in mind that Whyte is a serial asset stripper and maybe there is more of a plan than meets the eye! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EanieMeany Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 The fact they are talking about £30 million plus transfer reserves while they haven't paid creditors should mean they are kicked out of the league. It will be an absolute disgrace if they are allowed to get away with paying back a small percentage of what they owe while getting funds in place to buy in new players. If the money is there then they should be using it to pay the people they own. Edit to add- now that they are arranging foreign trips for preseason I assume they will be paying their bills now http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/...86908-23870306/ Couldn't believe it when I seen the story about the foreign trip. Between that and the shady character in the consortium who has apparently bailed out because he won't make money due to the transfer embargo, the whole story seems to get more and more poisonous. Rangers should be absolutely hammered by the SPL, SFA and any other footballing authority who has the powers to do so over this whole episode, their behaviour has been despicable at every turn. That's even before you consider the root causes such as the tax evasion. It stinks, and I would be disgusted if HMRC didn't demand every single penny from them. The other clubs who think the "NewCo" should be allowed into the league with no punishments should be hammered for bringing the game into disrepute too, I can't see what publicly valuing a quick buck over the integrity of the game can be viewed as. AWMSC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdoc1874 Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Included in the EBT list, Campbell Ogilve. Chairman of the S.F.A. Claiming that he thought it was all above board. What a crock of sh it. He should be the first ****er to fall on his sword. Five Star Removal's call 01888 1888 88. Tax evasion worse than raping kids, good moral high ground to take there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasta Ton Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 I think that there are a couple of key things came out 1) Rangers were using EBT's for regular contractual payments, something they are not designed for. 2) It would appear that details of player remuneration was not properly disclosed to the football authorities 3) Duff and Phelps have a prima facie case to answer in terms of being conflicted and should not have taken the case. I do wonder , however, why BBC picked an expert from a relatively small firm in Bristol? Why not use a recognised Scottish expert or maybe someone recommended by the Institute of Chartered Accountants of Scotland. The whole thing stinks of a setup though and it should be borne in mind that Whyte is a serial asset stripper and maybe there is more of a plan than meets the eye! Because Nick, no one at any of the big firms will touch the Rangers case and one of the reasons it was easy to get D&P in place. They don't want the hatemail or protests outside their office. I also know for a fact that Murray was happy to sell to Whyte and that he ignored due diligence that said in no uncertain terms Whyte was to be avoided at all costs. FIRST DIVISION RUNNERS UP 2012/13 Hey Man - Enough of your Stupidness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Tax evasion worse than raping kids, good moral high ground to take there How you getting on with your imaginary friends weedoc? You know, people on this board don't like me because I am a Celtic supporter? They get annoyed because I post about Celtic on a Morton board. They dont like you because you are a F U D. And if I was a Morton supporter I would be ashamed to associate with you. Away and throw a tantrum about flags and people enjoying themselves. Or jump in front of an inter city train. WHatever one is easier for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrissiboi Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Tax evasion worse than raping kids, good moral high ground to take there I definitely would not say that, neither should have been ignored. Bringing that up is a whole seperate issue, this matter has to go beyond Rangers and look at MIH . The club are in the frame but as we know it is the particular individuals who should carry responsibility. Murray's whole operation should be investigated, how much was MIH given by RFC to administer their tax affairs. It looks more and more like Sir Dav is another Robert Maxwell , say it convincingly enough often enough and threaten anyone who questions that with your lawyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmc Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 I also know for a fact that Murray was happy to sell to Whyte and that he ignored due diligence that said in no uncertain terms Whyte was to be avoided at all costs. How do you know this as fact?? (Ain't having a dig just really interested to know!) RIP New Order... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossco Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 , escape route for Murray. Whyte, Duff & Phelps the whole lot needs to have a full inquiry too many previous links to be a coincidence. I remember someone calling one of the phone lines basicly saying that Murray withdrew from Rangers to protect his own businesses as he could not afford to face the reality of being banned from being a company director. He knew this was coming & knew exactly what the penalties would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irnbru Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 How do you know this as fact?? (Ain't having a dig just really interested to know!) I'm not sure if Rasta's knowing it for a fact info and mine are the same but there are certain ex-employees who could be implicated looking for work and using references from associates of Murray which basically say this (or covering it with statements which have since came out to be false to be more accurate). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonsilitis Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Because Nick, no one at any of the big firms will touch the Rangers case and one of the reasons it was easy to get D&P in place. They don't want the hatemail or protests outside their office. I also know for a fact that Murray was happy to sell to Whyte and that he ignored due diligence that said in no uncertain terms Whyte was to be avoided at all costs. Thats not true actually as HMRC had one of the big three firms, I think KPMG's Edinburgh office, lined up to do the case but Whyte "fell on his own sword" before that could be completed. KPMG are still keen to do the liquidation should that arise. Further, ICAS would be delighted to put forward a suitable person as an expert witness to comment on Duff and Phelps' apparent conflict of interest and I would imagine most Rangers fans would support such an investigation. The directors of a company always have a head start on creditors in terms of appointing an administrator or a liquidator as they can go straight to court without waiting whereas a creditor has to serve stuff on the company giving them a statutory notice period that they are going to put them down. Provided the insolvency practitioner appears to be kosher, HMRC will usually allow the directors' appointment to stand as it relieves them of the cost of doing their own thing. And I agree, Murray sold to the first offer that came along because he was desperate to get rid of Rangers. I get the impression that, prior to the sale, Murray was guilty of bad management more than out and out dishonesty and probably dominated anyone who tried to tell him that the EBT's were badly implemented. I have seen people like him all my professional career - basically guys who cannot be told they are wrong, often because people are frightened of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasta Ton Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 How do you know this as fact?? (Ain't having a dig just really interested to know!) Because I know people who work for the legal firm in Glasgow who undertook the said due dilligence. FIRST DIVISION RUNNERS UP 2012/13 Hey Man - Enough of your Stupidness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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