Rasta Ton Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 The interesting thing I picked up speaking to some Rangers fans I know last night was that HMRC will set a big precedent if this happens meaning they can chase about 10 BIG English clubs for a lot of money they owe. I thought the precedence had already been set with Portsmouth FIRST DIVISION RUNNERS UP 2012/13 Hey Man - Enough of your Stupidness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhubarb Mess Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Reading that blog certainly gives the impression they are well and truly gubbed. Can dreams really come true, if one half of the horrible twins die hopefully they take the other sick sibling with it. But one is a good enough start. We are a MEAN diddy team!!! SITTING ON THE FENCE!!! m1874 Blog<<<..V..>>>Ernies Blog GMST make your own mind up. "Hey!!! That tea leaf half-inched me wallet" Yours Roobs, AKA, Harry's Orville Duck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunning1874 Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 The punishment the SPL give them for administration should be irrelevant anyway; if they lose the big case, they'll go out of business. What a wonderful day that would be. Brian Wake my Lord, Brian Wake Brian Wake my Lord, Brian Wake Brian Wake my Lord, Brian Wake Oh Lord, Brian Wake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie Aitken's Love Child Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 If Rangers do go out of business, which I don't believe they will I might add, they will simply start again with a new name, say Rangers 2012, and keep their place in the SPL. There's not a chance that the SPL would let one of the Old Firm drop down to the Third Division, just wouldn't happen, regardless of the rights or wrongs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedro.mcghee Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 If Rangers do go out of business, which I don't believe they will I might add, they will simply start again with a new name, say Rangers 2012, and keep their place in the SPL. There's not a chance that the SPL would let one of the Old Firm drop down to the Third Division, just wouldn't happen, regardless of the rights or wrongs. Only if it’s an Airdrie Clydebank thing someone would have to buy their place in the SPL open market anyone could apply for that even us. The rangers 2012 would have to apply for membership to the SFA and the SFL for the vacant place like Anan and Gretna did I am dyslexic and I am getting tired of your shirt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie Aitken's Love Child Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Only if it’s an Airdrie Clydebank thing someone would have to buy their place in the SPL open market anyone could apply for that even us. The rangers 2012 would have to apply for membership to the SFA and the SFL for the vacant place like Anan and Gretna did In theory yes. In practise...I imagine it would be very different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beermonkey Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 If Rangers do go out of business, which I don't believe they will I might add, they will simply start again with a new name, say Rangers 2012, and keep their place in the SPL. There's not a chance that the SPL would let one of the Old Firm drop down to the Third Division, just wouldn't happen, regardless of the rights or wrongs. Or maybe they could buy berwick rangers & apply for a place in the english league. wishful thinking. The future just ain't what it used to be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 As far as I am aware each penalty is givin to clubs on a case by case basis. Dundee got 20 odd points because it was not there first offence. Gretna were relegated to the bottom tier because there was a severe risk they would not fulfill the fixtures and it was deemed it would be better to have a 9 team fourth tear mid season than a 10 team second tier. I may be wrong there? I have been following this case very closely. The man who originally broke this story, Phil MacGiollaBhain, has Mayo roots and is in my local once a month at least. He has got everything spot on, even when being discredited by some of Scotlands more experienced Journolists. Hugh Keevin's and Graham Spiers in particular should be taking a bow at this point. Now Phil has stated quite categorically that this wont see the inside of a court room. All the talk of £40 million debts to HMRC only comes into play if they lose a court case, if it never see's the inside of a court room, quarter that figure. There is also very real speculation that at the moment Craig White is registering a new company at companies house at the moment. He fully expects Rangers to go into administration within the next month and a half, take a ten point deduction(which due to Celtic's poor form, will not be a major hit.) And this new company to come along, buy the assets at a fraction of there worth and start again. I think John Boyle may have done something similar at Motherwell? The BBC report on tv tonight should be quite revealing. 7pm, I dont know if it is BBC1 or BBC2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alibi Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 That's a bizarre conspiracy theory. Why on earth would the future Rangers situation be considered for even a second by the SFL chairmen whilst they were deciding on Dundee's sanctions? Rangers (or any other "big" SPL club) getting relegated to the SFL would be in their financial interest. It's not intended as a conspiracy theory. It's more that it seemed strange that Dundee were let off far more lightly than Livingston for what I think were similar offences. I was just wondering out loud if there was some other factor taken into consideration. The SPL will move heaven and earth to keep Rangers going and in the SPL. Some new variation of Britannia waives the rules... "Any nation given the opportunity to regain its national sovereignty and which then rejects it is so far beneath contempt that it is hard to put words to it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedro.mcghee Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Or maybe they could buy berwick rangers & apply for a place in the english league. wishful thinking. now thers a thout I am dyslexic and I am getting tired of your shirt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunning1874 Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 If Rangers do go out of business, which I don't believe they will I might add, they will simply start again with a new name, say Rangers 2012, and keep their place in the SPL. There's not a chance that the SPL would let one of the Old Firm drop down to the Third Division, just wouldn't happen, regardless of the rights or wrongs. For all that many within the SPL may love to do that, I really couldn't see it happening. UEFA and FIFA would have something to say about it for starters. It's not intended as a conspiracy theory. It's more that it seemed strange that Dundee were let off far more lightly than Livingston for what I think were similar offences. I was just wondering out loud if there was some other factor taken into consideration. The SPL will move heaven and earth to keep Rangers going and in the SPL. Some new variation of Britannia waives the rules... There was nothing strange about it at all; Dundee went into administration mid-season, Livingston didn't. Brian Wake my Lord, Brian Wake Brian Wake my Lord, Brian Wake Brian Wake my Lord, Brian Wake Oh Lord, Brian Wake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alibi Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 For all that many within the SPL may love to do that, I really couldn't see it happening. UEFA and FIFA would have something to say about it for starters. There was nothing strange about it at all; Dundee went into administration mid-season, Livingston didn't. Shouldn't make any difference. They should have fulfilled their fixtures then been relegated. Regarding that Craig Whyte chappie, seems a bit like Rangers' Hugh Scott judging by that programme. "Any nation given the opportunity to regain its national sovereignty and which then rejects it is so far beneath contempt that it is hard to put words to it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cawston Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 ".....following the demise of 24 companies that he was involved with". Says it all. Along the track the train came puffin, Morton 1 Celtic nuffin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunning1874 Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Shouldn't make any difference. They should have fulfilled their fixtures then been relegated. Regarding that Craig Whyte chappie, seems a bit like Rangers' Hugh Scott judging by that programme. That would have been unworkable. Had they stated when they handed down the initial penalty that they would relegate Dundee at the end of the season the division would have descended into farce, and there would have been no point in Dundee turning up for their fixtures, or fans turning up to their games, knowing they were already relegated. They also couldn't have relegated them at the end of the season as an additional punishment after the points deduction as they had agreed the CVA and begun the process of exiting administration. The SFL tried to ensure they were relegated by giving them a large points deduction, they went on a ridiculously good run and stayed up. It couldn't be helped. In any case Livingston's penalty wasn't for going into administration, it was for being unable to guarantee that they would be able to fulfil their fixtures. Dundee's was for administration alone. Neither case is remotely relevant to Rangers anyway; if they go into administration they'll get a 10 point deduction as stated in the SPL rules. Brian Wake my Lord, Brian Wake Brian Wake my Lord, Brian Wake Brian Wake my Lord, Brian Wake Oh Lord, Brian Wake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alibi Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 That would have been unworkable. Had they stated when they handed down the initial penalty that they would relegate Dundee at the end of the season the division would have descended into farce, and there would have been no point in Dundee turning up for their fixtures, or fans turning up to their games, knowing they were already relegated. They also couldn't have relegated them at the end of the season as an additional punishment after the points deduction as they had agreed the CVA and begun the process of exiting administration. The SFL tried to ensure they were relegated by giving them a large points deduction, they went on a ridiculously good run and stayed up. It couldn't be helped. In any case Livingston's penalty wasn't for going into administration, it was for being unable to guarantee that they would be able to fulfil their fixtures. Dundee's was for administration alone. Neither case is remotely relevant to Rangers anyway; if they go into administration they'll get a 10 point deduction as stated in the SPL rules. I wasn't suggesting two punishments; I was saying that they should have been moved to div 3 at the end of the season. If SPL rules already have a sanction specified then fair enough, that's all they can do to them. I wonder if Whyte will start demolishing Ibrox and have everyone in the rain behind one goal, before announcing that he's closing the internet down and building a supermarket on the site of Ibrox. "Any nation given the opportunity to regain its national sovereignty and which then rejects it is so far beneath contempt that it is hard to put words to it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunning1874 Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 I wasn't suggesting two punishments; I was saying that they should have been moved to div 3 at the end of the season. If SPL rules already have a sanction specified then fair enough, that's all they can do to them. I wonder if Whyte will start demolishing Ibrox and have everyone in the rain behind one goal, before announcing that he's closing the internet down and building a supermarket on the site of Ibrox. Yeah, I acknowledged your point of just one punishment in the sentence prior to the one you bolded; if they'd announced right there that Dundee would be relegated if would have been ****ing ridiculous. There'd have been no point in them turning up for their fixtures and the division would have descended into farce with one relegation spot guaranteed and a side being gifted three points every week due to a team not turning up for any games; essentially you'd have had the nine team division which the SFL were striving to avoid. Have to agree with your Hugh Scott assessment of Whyte though. The man can only be in this for a profit. If that plan fails, he's only paid a pound for the club anyway so he can't really lose. Brian Wake my Lord, Brian Wake Brian Wake my Lord, Brian Wake Brian Wake my Lord, Brian Wake Oh Lord, Brian Wake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornbeef Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Yeah, I acknowledged your point of just one punishment in the sentence prior to the one you bolded; if they'd announced right there that Dundee would be relegated if would have been ****ing ridiculous. There'd have been no point in them turning up for their fixtures and the division would have descended into farce with one relegation spot guaranteed and a side being gifted three points every week due to a team not turning up for any games; essentially you'd have had the nine team division which the SFL were striving to avoid. Have to agree with your Hugh Scott assessment of Whyte though. The man can only be in this for a profit. If that plan fails, he's only paid a pound for the club anyway so he can't really lose. If he can do a Fergus McCann for Rangers he'll be doing not too badly. Whyte may have a few skeletons in the cupboard ... allegedly acting as a director when disbarred , quite a few failed businesses with unpaid wages etc. Am I being cynical/naive when I say that he doesn't come across as Al Capone exactly ? I'm pretty sure there are thousands of 'successful businessmen' with far more shady histories than this guy. Having said that - I couldn't give monkey's if the whole lot goes down the pan. But it wont of course - it's just a bit of fun watching them squirm for a while. Show Racism the Red Card Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasta Ton Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 He was quoted in the Evening Times yesterday saying that he thought administration wouldn't be such a bad thing for Rangers. Very strange comment I thought. FIRST DIVISION RUNNERS UP 2012/13 Hey Man - Enough of your Stupidness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alibi Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 He was quoted in the Evening Times yesterday saying that he thought administration wouldn't be such a bad thing for Rangers. Very strange comment I thought. Administration as a deliberate tactic is in my view legalised theft. "Any nation given the opportunity to regain its national sovereignty and which then rejects it is so far beneath contempt that it is hard to put words to it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonsilitis Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Rangers tax scheme was a tax avoidance scheme used by lots of higher earners in the late nineties/early two thousands. HMRC have long since cracked down hard on such artificial schemes and it could not be used now. They have also looked at schemes implemented before it was absolutely outlawed for the slightest flaw in how it was implemented and I think that is what is happening with Rangers. What I wonder about is who gave them the tax advice? If it had come from a decent sized firm of accountants, Rangers would have a claim against them and their insurers. Because that has not been mentioned, I suspect that they either implemented the scheme themselves or got it on the cheap from an uninsured advisor. If that is the case, there is a high chance the scheme is flawed and they will lose. If they are forced into admin, it will be a brave man who takes the case. It would probably be best for his own safety if it's an English insolvency practitioner. I also sympathise with Alibi as Craig Whyte seems to make his money from company administrations. The previous chairman and ex directors suing for millions also have a lot to answer for! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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