If The Rangers Go In To The First Division

[Tonsilitis]

I came across this via P & B and think it is possibly the best article I have read on the Rangers saga. Its lengthy but well reading;

 

Clicky

 

PS: I have sent a copy of it to DDFR

[ton5saints1]

I have said on a few threads that the SFL could use letting Rangers into D1 as a bargaining chip and it looks like Longmuir has done just that. OK everyone accepts that the proper thing was to have them apply to D3 but I can put up with them in D1 in exchange for major reform and it looks like we are getting a lot of what is needed:

 

1) Sky money shared with SFL. That drops into the general SFL pot presumably for the benefit of all clubs

 

2)SPL/SFA replaced by one league body with two members each on the new board and a new chief executive. As long as that's not Doncaster, I am happy.

 

3) Play offs introduced immediately which partially covers for the nothing to play for point and will be there going forward long after the Rangers saga has calmed down

 

4) they are also talking about the player embargo and maybe Rangers may have to accept that as an alternative to suspension. If that happens maybe promotion at the first attempt might not be a foregone conclusion!

 

Presumably the new league body will have decent voting procedures, with no equivalent of the 11-1 nonsense of the SPL. There also have to safeguards to ensure the top league can never revert to type and break away again. We are probably also moving towards a pyramid system..

 

The one thing that sticks in the craw is that the rule changes have been made to accommodate Rangers and not because they are just common sense and should have happened years ago.

 

Absolutely no way 'The' Rangers should be allowed anywhere near the 1st division.

Yes, we badly need change, but not at the expense of selling our soul to the devil.

 

[Tonsilitis]

Absolutely no way 'The' Rangers should be allowed anywhere near the 1st division.

Yes, we badly need change, but not at the expense of selling our soul to the devil.

I have a feeling that this discussion is going to be academic because it is looking increasingly like Newco might not make it to the start of the season. There is also a suggestion that Green has done a "Whyte and used some f this years season ticket money to fund his acquisition.

 

As for "selling our soul", the usual cause of that is money and everyone has their price. It looks like £250k is the price of a number of SFL D1 clubs!

[Mabawsa Ritchie]

Absolutely no way 'The' Rangers should be allowed anywhere near the 1st division.

Yes, we badly need change, but not at the expense of selling our soul to the devil.

 

Agreed. I would not have thought our Chairman would have countenanced Sevco 'parachuting' straight into Division 1. As there is no mechanism which allows a new Club to start off in Division 1, a rule change will be necessary to allow this requiring 75% of SFL clubs to vote 'Yes'. If it is passed, and it is clear that DDF voted in favour, I shall be returning my 2012/13 ST post haste as will the two mates who attend Cappielow with me. As a 'Ton supporter of almost 50 years, I shall miss going to games but I will take comfort in the fact that I am not condoning corruption.

[tom]

I have a feeling that this discussion is going to be academic because it is looking increasingly like Newco might not make it to the start of the season. There is also a suggestion that Green has done a "Whyte and used some f this years season ticket money to fund his acquisition.

 

As for "selling our soul", the usual cause of that is money and everyone has their price. It looks like £250k is the price of a number of SFL D1 clubs!

 

It's not worth it at any price.

[SmithsTON]

I have a feeling that this discussion is going to be academic because it is looking increasingly like Newco might not make it to the start of the season. There is also a suggestion that Green has done a "Whyte and used some f this years season ticket money to fund his acquisition.

 

As for "selling our soul", the usual cause of that is money and everyone has their price. It looks like £250k is the price of a number of SFL D1 clubs!

 

What a cynical view, but perhaps not all that surprising coming from an accountant (no offence). Personally, I don't have a price when it comes to this issue. I shall also return my ST if newco is allowed to enter the Scottish game anywhere but Division 3.

[BishopTon]

I have a feeling that this discussion is going to be academic because it is looking increasingly like Newco might not make it to the start of the season. There is also a suggestion that Green has done a "Whyte and used some f this years season ticket money to fund his acquisition.

 

As for "selling our soul", the usual cause of that is money and everyone has their price. It looks like £250k is the price of a number of SFL D1 clubs!

 

Whyte paid a pound to SDM for Rangers, the Ticketus money was used to pay off the 18m debt to Lloyds, not to fund the acquisition.

There is rumours that Green is paying the fees for d&p with season tickets sales by forgetting to change the bank account to the newco where the season ticket sales so far have gone...

The whole thing stinks and the D&P Involvement needs investigation.

[Tonsilitis]

What a cynical view, but perhaps not all that surprising coming from an accountant (no offence). Personally, I don't have a price when it comes to this issue. I shall also return my ST if newco is allowed to enter the Scottish game anywhere but Division 3.

It is a cynical view, but one based on real life. It does not mean I agree with the proposals as, apart from moral issues, I think (in accountant's terms) that the medium/long term cost of disenchanted fans to Scottish football will be a lot more than a one season only £250k, if that is even available.

 

As I have said, unless a white knight rides over the hill, I think Newco are going down shortly as well and might not even make it to the start of the season. The very least the SFL needs is a bond from Mr Green that they can fulfil their playing commitments, whatever league they are in.

[SmithsTON]

It is a cynical view, but one based on real life. It does not mean I agree with the proposals as, apart from moral issues, I think (in accountant's terms) that the medium/long term cost of disenchanted fans to Scottish football will be a lot more than a one season only £250k, if that is even available.

 

As I have said, unless a white knight rides over the hill, I think Newco are going down shortly as well and might not even make it to the start of the season. The very least the SFL needs is a bond from Mr Green that they can fulfil their playing commitments, whatever league they are in.

 

Given your position within the GMFC Supporters' Society, I take it you will be taking urgent action to ballot members and passing their collective view onto DDF?

[capitanus]

Given your position within the GMFC Supporters' Society, I take it you will be taking urgent action to ballot members and passing their collective view onto DDF?

 

No, but he'll spout s***e on a messageboard and then act subservient to DDFR whenever he's wanting some glasses collected in the chairman's lounge.

[LargsTON]

Given your position within the GMFC Supporters' Society, I take it you will be taking urgent action to ballot members and passing their collective view onto DDF?

 

This.

[BishopTon]

It is a cynical view, but one based on real life. It does not mean I agree with the proposals as, apart from moral issues, I think (in accountant's terms) that the medium/long term cost of disenchanted fans to Scottish football will be a lot more than a one season only £250k, if that is even available.

 

As I have said, unless a white knight rides over the hill, I think Newco are going down shortly as well and might not even make it to the start of the season. The very least the SFL needs is a bond from Mr Green that they can fulfil their playing commitments, whatever league they are in.

 

Is it not a white horse, with Walter atop, rather than a white night.

Serously though the bond must be required as that's why Livi were relegated, by not posting £750k to ensure fixtures would be fulfilled.

[northseaton]

I for one would be thoroughly appalled if Rangers were contesting anything but the 3rd Division title next season. Regarding a boycott my support fo Morton runs too deep to contemplate withdrawing my support for my team and that of my dad and my grandfather for that matter.

 

I would just have to content myself and subjecting one half of the rotten mob to torrents of abuse the next time they visit Cappielow.

 

Scottish football governing bodies should hang there head in shame if they end up in the 1st Division. Whats to stop Aberdeen/Hearts as examples of clubs with significant debt folding , rising from the ashes as an adaptation of their former self and ending up in the 1st division leaving a trail of debt in their wake.

 

 

edited for typo

[Andy M]

Agreed. I would not have thought our Chairman would have countenanced Sevco 'parachuting' straight into Division 1. As there is no mechanism which allows a new Club to start off in Division 1, a rule change will be necessary to allow this requiring 75% of SFL clubs to vote 'Yes'. If it is passed, and it is clear that DDF voted in favour, I shall be returning my 2012/13 ST post haste as will the two mates who attend Cappielow with me. As a 'Ton supporter of almost 50 years, I shall miss going to games but I will take comfort in the fact that I am not condoning corruption.

 

Snap !!

 

And, if the Morton Trust don't act on this then I'll be binning my membership of that too.

 

Totally and utterly corrupt - the whole thing stinks - and if the Trust wont act against that then there is no hope for them whatsoever.

[Tonsilitis]

Given your position within the GMFC Supporters' Society, I take it you will be taking urgent action to ballot members and passing their collective view onto DDF?

We will be taking action shortly in view of recent developments. Announcements will be made as soon as possible.

[capitanus]

I for one would be thoroughly appalled if Rangers were contesting anything but the 3rd Division title next season. Regarding a boycott my support fo Morton runs too deep to contemplate withdrawing my support for my team and that of my dad and my grandfather for that matter.

 

I would just have to content myself and subjecting one half of the rotten mob to torrents of abuse the next time they visit Cappielow.

 

Scottish football governing bodies should hang there head in shame if they end up in the 1st Division. Whats to stop Aberdeen/Hearts as examples of clubs with significant debt folding , rising from the ashes as an adaptation of their former self and ending up in the 1st division leaving a trail of debt in their wake.

edited for typo

 

Rangers SHOULD be in the SPL next season, as it relates to one of their member clubs and their wrongdoings.

 

Its up to them to get it sorted, Morton FC are a member of a totally seperate league - the SFL - and shouldnt be affected or inconvenienced by the problems arising elsewhere in other leagues.

[midTONs]

We will be taking action shortly in view of recent developments. Announcements will be made as soon as possible.

 

Nick I'm getting increasinly worried reading your comments on this situation on different message boards and social networking sites, you seem to be contradicting yourself on a lot of your views.

 

I hope my fear that you are stalling any involvemnt of the trust on this issue is unfounded because they might not be in line with your personal views or that of Mr Raes.

[Toby]

Given your position within the GMFC Supporters' Society, I take it you will be taking urgent action to ballot members and passing their collective view onto DDF?

 

Interesting. Jim MacVicar, who many will know on here as midTONs, posted on the Trust Facebook page last night asking the Trust's stance on the Rangers issue and was answered by an anonymous poster under the Trust's name;

 

Jim MacVicar

As we all know, there's been talk recently of the potential of a newly formed club, "The Rangers" being parachuted to the First Division should they fail to be allowed to transfer the remaining SPL share from the liquidated Rangers FC PLC.

 

Morton Chairman Douglas Rae has already said in the press that he thinks a happy medium would be for The Rangers to be relegated to the First Division (although they have never played a football match in their history, let alone in the SPL), and this could in turn lead to the formation of SPL 2. Anyone that reads the messageboard and knows a lot of Morton fans on Facebook will see that this has been met with fierce resistance from a lot of our fans who don't think the commercial benefits of having a club that will naturally inherit the support of the old Rangers FC should take precedence over the need to maintain sporting integrity in Scottish Football.

 

I'm of the opinion that the majority of Morton supporters believe that clubs should be judged on sporting merit rather than how many people click through the turnstiles- after all, in spite of bring a First Division club in stature, Morton were forced to play in the Third Division because we couldn't cope at a higher level, whilst Airdrie United, after the liquidation of Airdrieonians had to endure the ultimately fruitless pursuit of league football before scandalously being allowed to buy Clydebank's membership. Clydebank now play in the West of Scotland Junior Premier Division and the re-incarnation of Gretna in the East of Scotland League.

 

The collapse of one of Scottish football's two biggest clubs is the biggest issue in the history of the game in this country, with an affect on every club and supporter. That it is now getting to the stage that it could well come closer to home with Falkirk and Partick also stating their desire for The Rangers to be placed in the First Division, is it not about time the trust nailed it's colours to the mast, given that the supporters are an integral part of Morton and Morton an integral part of Scottish Football?

 

Where do you stand?

 

Greeenock Morton Supporters' Trust

Jim, I have written to DDFR a few day ago expressing the view that if Rangers apply for admission to the SFL it should be at the bottom rung i.e. division 3.

 

Jim MacVicar

was this letter on behalf of the trust or yourself as an individual?

 

Russell Gordon

The Trust is a body, not a person. Who is "I", and is it on behalf of the Trust? Has the Trust met to discuss this issue and agree on their policy and what road they want to go down?

 

Greenock Morton Supporters' Trust

I wrote making it clear I was expressing my personal views. We intend to canvass the views of members on this issue at the AGM.

 

Jim MacVicar

might be leaving it a bit late Nick, DDF needs to know now where the majority of the fans stand on this and judging by the responses on the message boards and social networking sites it's obvious the fans don't think any newco should be allowed to be parachuted into anywhere except the 3rd division.

 

Russell Gordon

We've asked for the Trust's view, not that of A.N.OTHER. Who is "I"? Since the Herald article was published I've seen contradicting messages from two Trust Board Members, both of whom seem to be in favour of cashing in on The Rangers' elevation to the First Division, yet posting on other websites that The Rangers should be in the Third Division. Such mixed messages give the impression that the Trust don't want to upset or see Mr. Rae being criticised, regardless of what is morally correct. And when is the Trust AGM? This is an issue that will be dealt with over an extremely short timescale- waiting a few weeks or so is pointless as the damage could be done by then.

 

Alan Ghosty MacLennan

We all know that it's all down to Rae that the nick we are in tbh, we could have been moving forwards long long ago

 

Jim MacVicar

off the top of my head the agm is the 5th of next month which in my opinion is to late.

 

This, like for many bodies involved within Scottish football is an opportunity for the Trust. It's reputation has suffered greatly over the last three years and it could be putting a stance across one way or another, but they don't seem to know what they want.

 

Firstly, on the Herald thread we had Tonsilitis saying everyone was being harsh on Mr. Rae and he was saying what a lot of us were thinking. Then, on Pie and Bovril, he's signing their petition and informing everyone on there that he's written to his Chairman, and now he's looking at it as a bargaining chip, whilst Scott Gillan posted on the No to Newco Facebook page (link below if anyone wishes to join ) that "Dont want them but we would benefit from £££££".

 

This isn't an organisation that's filling me with confidence that they're going to stand up for what I believe is right. Why is that?

 

Am I wrong? Could be after all, it's all down to opinions.

 

Do they want The Rangers in the First Division?

 

Are they more concerned with reducing the deficit to Golden Casket?

 

Or do they not want to upset the chairman by not toeing the party line?

 

There was at one time a seat on the board at Cappielow for the Trust, just saying.

[chrissiboi]

I have said on a few threads that the SFL could use letting Rangers into D1 as a bargaining chip and it looks like Longmuir has done just that. OK everyone accepts that the proper thing was to have them apply to D3 but I can put up with them in D1 in exchange for major reform and it looks like we are getting a lot of what is needed:

 

1) Sky money shared with SFL. That drops into the general SFL pot presumably for the benefit of all clubs

 

2)SPL/SFA replaced by one league body with two members each on the new board and a new chief executive. As long as that's not Doncaster, I am happy.

 

3) Play offs introduced immediately which partially covers for the nothing to play for point and will be there going forward long after the Rangers saga has calmed down

 

4) they are also talking about the player embargo and maybe Rangers may have to accept that as an alternative to suspension. If that happens maybe promotion at the first attempt might not be a foregone conclusion!

 

Presumably the new league body will have decent voting procedures, with no equivalent of the 11-1 nonsense of the SPL. There also have to safeguards to ensure the top league can never revert to type and break away again. We are probably also moving towards a pyramid system..

 

The one thing that sticks in the craw is that the rule changes have been made to accommodate Rangers and not because they are just common sense and should have happened years ago.

 

What would stop all those SPL clubs from resigning and starting again when a new Sky contract came up for renewal, as soon as Sevco 5088 are returned to the fold we will have served our purpose.

 

The whole thing is not to benefit Scottish football and even if clubs in Division 1 get a more beneficial package they would have done so while condemning the other 20 senior clubs.

 

Considering your position as Chairman of the Supporters Trust should you not be advocating a voice for the supporters before this took place rather than giving the pros and cons( very apt phrase) of the situation.

 

One thing that is evident is we do not have an appropriate ruling body in our national game.

 

Senior football has killed its meagre credibility for a few crumbs from the big table.

 

[ton5saints1]

I have a feeling that this discussion is going to be academic because it is looking increasingly like Newco might not make it to the start of the season. There is also a suggestion that Green has done a "Whyte and used some f this years season ticket money to fund his acquisition.

 

As for "selling our soul", the usual cause of that is money and everyone has their price. It looks like £250k is the price of a number of SFL D1 clubs!

 

I think I'm going to be disagreeing with you a lot on this subject, but healthy debate is good, especially with something as important as this. I do hope you're right about everything falling apart at Green's Rangers, but from what has gone on so far, absolutely anything could happen.

I'm surprised at your short-termism (think that's the phrase) - if 'The' Rangers were indeed not to make it into the SFL and have to struggle with their new identity for the next year or so before being allowed into the SFL, I'd reckon Morton could capture 100s of kids in that time scale who would go to Cappielow instead of following in their fathers footsteps. Morton FC could make a major push to get more kids into Cappielow rather than take a short-term hit of cash.

 

And no, everyone DOESN'T have their price.