The Rc Church

[vikingTON]

I can fully accept that many will not share my view but for every one who does not, I suspect there will be one, maybe more, who does. Its a scandal that we allow our kids to be segregated along religious lines in this day and age.

 

All i need is apartheid and I can call house.

[Tom_McB]

El Gofer is right in that the principal theme of this thread is sickening attitude of the church to paedophile priests. I hope they all get their come uppence and the Bishops who presided over the cover up feel the full force of the law.

Indeed. pity you banged the lambeg about papish schools in the middle of it. <_>

 

Its a scandal that we allow our kids to be segregated along religious lines in this day and age.

And there you go again <_>

I teach in a catholic school, the pupils include Sikhs, hindus, muslims and the papes who you seem to be fixated with. Hardly segregation or apartheid. Still, keep pushing that big lie in a Joe Goebells style.

 

 

[Tom_McB]

All i need is apartheid and I can call house.

Lodge would be better.

 

[Tonsilitis]

Sorry mate, I'd have to disagree with you about that, my kids go to a Catholic High School in Falkirk. My son is a Morton supporter ( no surprise there ) his 10 best friends are, in no particular order,

 

2 - Partick fans,

2 - Rangers fans,

1 - Everton fan,

3 - Falkirk fans,

2 - Celtic fans.

 

He has no real belief in religion and has more belief in his mates, it's unfortunate, but almost certainly true that this nonsense comes from within the family or local environment, rather than from the school.

 

He has never been seperated from his friends, either by religion or school, but then maybe, he just hasn't been brought up by bigots.

 

You make your own mind up.

I take the point you make but I assume that your son and his pals are of mixed religious backgrounds. If that is the case it kind of emphasises my point that all of them being in one school makes religion a non issue between them.

 

My kids all attended a non denominational primary school. My oldest lad's best pal was a Catholic and he only realised that there was 'a difference' when they had to go to different secondary schools. In the 1970's there wasn't a choice.

 

I fully take your point that the home has an important role to play as well in not bringing up bigots but not all parents bring their kids up correctly. It would be nice to think that the bile present in such family homes was diluted to some degree at school rather than having differences emphasised.

[The greenock guvnor]

Indeed. pity you banged the lambeg about papish schools in the middle of it. <_>

 

 

And there you go again <_>

I teach in a catholic school, the pupils include Sikhs, hindus, muslims and the papes who you seem to be fixated with. Hardly segregation or apartheid. Still, keep pushing that big lie in a Joe Goebells style.

 

Unfortunately Tom are your fellow teachers Sikhs, hindus, muslims. proddies? Nope and the cycle continues.

 

I would call it that if you are barred from getting a job in a school because of your faith.

And I would n't mention a pal of the Catholic Church(Joe Goebbells) you might get excomunicated.

[vikingTON]

I would call it that if you are barred from getting a job in a school because of your faith.

 

You're that mentalist who keeps trying to get a civil partnership for him and his wife, aren't you?

[Tonsilitis]

Indeed. pity you banged the lambeg about papish schools in the middle of it. <_>

And there you go again <_>

I teach in a catholic school, the pupils include Sikhs, hindus, muslims and the papes who you seem to be fixated with. Hardly segregation or apartheid. Still, keep pushing that big lie in a Joe Goebells style.

I'm glad you used those terms because its not something I would because its disrespectful to people I have no issues with. Its their church and its attitudes that pees me off.

 

You didn't mention non Catholic Christians in your list of other religions you teach. If you have all these other people, why not go the whole hog and just lift religion out of the schools altogether? The catholic kids can go to church after school if that's what the parents want just like, presumably the Hindus and the Muslims do.

 

Scotland has a problem with sectarianism and it needs addressed. Other places are cited -America for example - as being fine with faith based schools. Might I suggest that that is because they have no history of sectarianism. On the other, the widespread racism has been tackled by forcing integration of schools. Is there a parallel?

 

Sectarianism/racism, they are both just branches of tribalism which has no place in a modern society.

 

Good night!

[Tonsilitis]

Lodge would be better.

That did not become you Tom!

[vikingTON]

Scotland has a problem with sectarianism and it needs addressed. Other places are cited -America for example - as being fine with faith based schools. Might I suggest that that is because they have no history of sectarianism.

 

You're throwing the baby out with the bathwater. It wasn't Catholics who started riots across Scotland in the 1780s, or ran on anti-Catholic political parties in the 1930s. State schooling successfully integrated the vast majority of Catholics into society as a whole and through an educated class has been the prime mover behind the removal of sectarianism. That a thick uneducated rump in both sectors remains is a problem that no footering with schools with solve. You can't polish a turd, not even bigoted turds.

[The greenock guvnor]

1. Catholic schools were brought from voluntary support into the state system.

 

2. Well it is. Faith-based schools are prevalent in the US and Europe but no-one there is whingeing about promoting divisions. People accept that friends are as likely to be made in the neighbourhood and youth organisations as in school, and get over their own narrow-minded views of society.

 

3. Non-denominational schools have a long-established track record of bringing in Church of Scotland ministers, services etc. I think I'm right in recalling nacho complainign about his religious mistreatment at the hands of the Godly establishment.

 

4. Tom Devine is by far and away the most pre-eminent, respected and knowledgeable figure when it comes to domestic Scottish history. That he doesn't apply your own narrow-minded agendas to the facts shows that you're wrong rather than he's lost it.

 

 

1. I wonder why? The catholic vote perchance ?

2.Its the old Power struggle again. Lets all make it look like it is rosey in the garden. Boston? never heard of it?

Hold on till I get the whitewash brush.

3. Nope wrong. I went to a non denomenational school and certainly no symbolism was openly on show to promote Church of Scotland views and certainly do not recall being forced to attend any services or join the church. Certainly no minister ever taught in the classes other subjects e.g. Maths , English etc

4.Only your opinion. Not mine. However I will stick to Kant and Friends. And the words in bold obviously show how narrow minded your views are you. Just stick with auld Tom and auld Nick and do not question authority.

My agenda is what? Egalitarianism Rules Ok!

[The greenock guvnor]

You're throwing the baby out with the bathwater. It wasn't Catholics who started riots across Scotland in the 1780s, or ran on anti-Catholic political parties in the 1930s. State schooling successfully integrated the vast majority of Catholics into society as a whole and through an educated class has been the prime mover behind the removal of sectarianism. That a thick uneducated rump in both sectors remains is a problem that no footering with schools with solve. You can't polish a turd, not even bigoted turds.

 

Lets forgot about all the Catholic Church history before these dates and since then.

[vikingTON]

1. I wonder why? The catholic vote perchance ?

2.Its the old Power struggle again. Lets all make it look like it is rosey in the garden. Boston? never heard of it?

Hold on till I get the whitewash brush.

3. Nope wrong. I went to a non denomenational school and certainly no symbolism was openly on show to promote Church of Scotland views and certainly do not recall being forced to attend any services or join the church. Certainly no minister ever taught in the classes other subjects e.g. Maths , English etc

4.Only your opinion. Not mine. However I will stick to Kant and Friends. And the words in bold obviously show how narrow minded your views are you. Just stick with auld Tom and auld Nick and do not question authority.

My agenda is what? Egalitarianism Rules Ok!

 

1) The Catholic vote constituted a tiny minority of the UK vote. Much more to do with integration of all into the state: y'know the process that you claim to be in favour of. But way to try and muddy the waters with your over-egged cynicism.

 

2. Relevance? None whatsoever.

 

3. You seriously think that priests teach English and Maths in Catholic schools? You should have probably went to a better school after all.

 

4. Kant? Scottish historian?

 

[vikingTON]

Lets forgot about all the Catholic Church history before these dates and since then.

 

The Catholic Church was removed from Scottish society in the 1560s. You keep trying to muddy the issue of Catholic schools with your dislike of the Roman Catholic Church. In Scotland the two issues are quite distinct.

[The greenock guvnor]

You're that mentalist who keeps trying to get a civil partnership for him and his wife, aren't you?

Lets cut half the point out so it doesn't exist. Teachers at Roman Catholic schools can not be of other faiths and receive promotion. Fact.

[The greenock guvnor]

1) The Catholic vote constituted a tiny minority of the UK vote. Much more to do with integration of all into the state: y'know the process that you claim to be in favour of. But way to try and muddy the waters with your over-egged cynicism.

 

2. Relevance? None whatsoever.

 

3. You seriously think that priests teach English and Maths in Catholic schools? You should have probably went to a better school after all.

 

4. Kant? Scottish historian?

1.

In 1872 there was non demonational schools however the catholic church decided to maintain catholic schools. The obvious gap between the religions and their education(lack of) in 1918 was to bring society together but unlike England the state pays for these schools. The catholics were a minority then but are far, far greater in numbers now and this influences the politicians to not vote out Roman Catholic State funded schools.

2.Yes it is ? And more fool you if you think not. The Catholic church dominates Ireland and that includes politics. Did the Catholic church have specific policies to cover up such scandal and to therfore maintain its image and power. Yes they did.

3. Never mentioned priests but nuns do? Why? When teaching topics such as maths and History etc the emphasis for qualification to teach on this subject should be your knowledge on this and not what your faith is and that is why I have said no minister teaches subjects in a non denominational school. I suggest you should have come and join a non denomenantional school if that is your conclusion.

4. Never said he was a historian at all. Do not be confused because there other people apart from Tom Devine with views on the subject of religous issues and education. Why did you come to that conclusion? All I said was I was sticking with Kant and friends. The BIG clue was in that answer. Did you not read to the end. Maybe it was your schooling that effects your obvious attempt at argument of a defence of the indefensible.

I suggest you take your amatuerish attempts at a debate by quoting other people away and stop making presumptions as concluding facts which frankly are a lot of pish. It is embarrasing. I see you still are not answering the real big questions. The answers are still there. Avoid them at all costs seems to be your view or cut out the major points produced in opposition to your views on how to make answers incorrect or irrelevant. Get out the whitewash brush.

[The greenock guvnor]

The Catholic Church was removed from Scottish society in the 1560s. You keep trying to muddy the issue of Catholic schools with your dislike of the Roman Catholic Church. In Scotland the two issues are quite distinct.

 

The Enlightenment and the threat to the catholic church was in force in the whole of Europe in the time you mention of "the riots" who were actually taking the power away from the Vatican. That is how there were anti catholic riots as you call it or was it the power struggle to stand up for a far more democratic civilised and humane society?

Tom Devine does not talk about that at all. Why not ?

[The greenock guvnor]

You're that mentalist who keeps trying to get a civil partnership for him and his wife, aren't you?

I take it you have no answer to the point made then which is fact that you can not be of another religion and teach religous education or hold a position of power in a Roman Catholic School. No such situation happens in non denominational schools.

So you just spout a pile of pish talk to evade the facts that it is a sectarian policy.

[chris_mceleny]

I take the point you make but I assume that your son and his pals are of mixed religious backgrounds. If that is the case it kind of emphasises my point that all of them being in one school makes religion a non issue between them.

 

My kids all attended a non denominational primary school. My oldest lad's best pal was a Catholic and he only realised that there was 'a difference' when they had to go to different secondary schools. In the 1970's there wasn't a choice.

 

I fully take your point that the home has an important role to play as well in not bringing up bigots but not all parents bring their kids up correctly. It would be nice to think that the bile present in such family homes was diluted to some degree at school rather than having differences emphasised.

 

sorry but to be frank for a minute instead of chris, your talking nonsense. i attendend 3 different catholic schools in my upbringing. never once were we told proddies are bad dont hang about with them or any garbage like that you would like to fabricate for the sake of your arguement. in terms of religous education in catholic schools the majority of the core framework does not have a catholic ethos but a christian one - rather fitting with this being a majority christian country. catholic schools exist because the parents wish their children to be educated in a catholic ethos and i believe canon law dictates there must be a catholic school provided if the parents wish so?

 

You could open this arguement up to the reformation etc with the view of it was the catholic church that brought schooling to this country and why should we cease to have this due to the views of reformists but as that arguement is now 500 odd year old i dont think it will be won on here.

 

on another note i think the the original post has already made a 10+ page thread. the same arguements apply.

 

* Paedophilia exists in every walk of life and every catholic other than those involved ( 99.99999999%) rightly condemn what has happened in ireland

[chris_mceleny]

Lets cut half the point out so it doesn't exist. Teachers at Roman Catholic schools can not be of other faiths. Fact.

 

 

totally not true. the only positions in a catholic school that require a catholic from memory are guidance teachers(6 or so), head of science, head teacher and maybe RE teachers but not to sure on them so probably less than 10% there.

 

do you feel foolish now that you put a silly little fact at the end of your statement now

[chris_mceleny]

1. In 1872 there was non demonational schools however the catholic church decided to maintain catholic schools. The obvious gap between the religions was to bring society together but unlike England the state pays for these schools.

2.Yes it is ? And more fool you if you think not. The Catholic church dominates Ireland and that includes politics. Did the Catholic church have specific policies to cover up such scandal and to therfore maintain its image and power.

3. Never mentioned priests but nuns do? Why do nuns teach maths and history etc ? I suggest you should have come and join a non denomenantional school if that is your conclusion.

4. Never said he was a historian at all. Do not looked confused because there other people apart from Tom Devine with views on the subject of religous issues. Why did you come to that conclusion? All I said was I was sticking with Kant and friends. The BIG clue was in that answer. Did you not read to the end. Maybe it was your schooling that effects your obvious defence of the indefensible.

I suggest you take your amatuerish attempts at a debate by quoting other people away and stop making presumptions as concluding facts which frankly are a lot of pish. It is embarrasing. I see you still are not answering the real big questions. The answers are still there. Avoid them at all costs seems to be your view on how to make answers incorrect or irrelevant. Get out the whitewash brush.

 

i would imagine any nun who teaches in a school most likely attained a degree and then done a post gradute in primary education and taught in a primary school, dont think i am aware of any nuns that have taught in high schools but wouldnt see a problem as they would be properly trained