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Any suggested reconstruction is likely to be a temporary one.

 

Can't see St. Mirren, Hamilton or Ross county voting for a 14 team league which relegates 3 teams just to get back to the status quo after one season.

 

Budge is already talking about a 'temporary change.' A temporary change which will presumably mean 3 or 4 relegation places in a Championship of 10 teams next season. I'm sure once someone points out some of these pesky details to her, she'll try to promote it as some sort of great bastion of sporting integrity. 

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Agree, if there is to be reconstruction it's not just for Christmas.

Reconstruct and stick with it, it shouldn't be done to save clubs from relegation.

Except Motherwell, who seemed to get saved anytime their position looked shoogly.

McGhee needs some support, there's no-one backing him up.
Hayes playing it forward, Bell being forced to do it all alone, now forward from Marr, here's Ritchie, still Andy Ritchie, look at the control...

That is a marvellous goal from Andy Ritchie. Twenty minutes on the clock and Morton's supporters come alive. A goal which epitomises the control, the arrogance, the cheek of Andy Ritchie.

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Except Motherwell, who seemed to get saved anytime their position looked shoogly.

In fairness to Motherwell, they've always been able to save themselves on the place that matters - the football pitch.

 

ETA: Ann Budge should be excused from any role involving league reconstruction due to a conflict of interest.

*insert signature here*

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Shitebags. Lovely.

 

Or the reconstruction corruption has filtered their way.

It's a lot of money to chuck at something that isn't an open and shut argument - and could drag things out for a substantial amount of time - probably not worth it.

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Raith chairman has now come out in support of 14 10 10 10.

Clearly this is going to happen whether we like it or not.

14-10-10-10, I think, is the best way out of this. Whether St Mirren, St Johnstone, Motherwell etc agree is another thing...

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14-10-10-10, I think, is the best way out of this. Whether St Mirren, St Johnstone, Motherwell etc agree is another thing...

Out of what? An overwhelming majority have spoken in favour of the SPFL’s resolution, there’s nothing to “get out of”.

 

A 14-10-10-10 still wouldn’t appease those clubs who could’ve been promoted through the play offs, which some may have forgotten, includes ourselves.

 

Do we go down the route of extending the leagues to the point that everyone’s happy or do we eventually decide to just get on with it?

 

Partick didn’t have the opportunity to save themselves, Falkirk didn’t have the opportunity to win the league and we didn’t have the opportunity to make the play offs. Yes, we were further from our target than they were but a line has to be drawn somewhere.

 

Perhaps the best resolution is for Hearts, Partick, Falkirk, Stranraer and Edinburgh to dry their respective eyes, accept they haven’t been good enough and try again next time.

 

What a lot of people, not necessarily on this hotbed of high browed sporting, political and cultural debate, seem to have forgotten is that all the clubs mentioned above, with the exception of Edinburgh, really have nobody to blame but themselves for finding themselves in that predicament.

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Out of what? An overwhelming majority have spoken in favour of the SPFL’s resolution, there’s nothing to “get out of”.

 

A 14-10-10-10 still wouldn’t appease those clubs who could’ve been promoted through the play offs, which some may have forgotten, includes ourselves.

 

Do we go down the route of extending the leagues to the point that everyone’s happy or do we eventually decide to just get on with it?

 

Partick didn’t have the opportunity to save themselves, Falkirk didn’t have the opportunity to win the league and we didn’t have the opportunity to make the play offs. Yes, we were further from our target than they were but a line has to be drawn somewhere.

 

Perhaps the best resolution is for Hearts, Partick, Falkirk, Stranraer and Edinburgh to dry their respective eyes, accept they haven’t been good enough and try again next time.

 

What a lot of people, not necessarily on this hotbed of high browed sporting, political and cultural debate, seem to have forgotten is that all the clubs mentioned above, with the exception of Edinburgh, really have nobody to blame but themselves for finding themselves in that predicament.

The possibility of reconstruction has been part of the package since the resolution was tabled - what Dundee achieved was turning that from a vague statement of intent to a practical commitment in the form of a working group. And in my opinion that’s fair - for me any starting point is that a club shouldn’t be in a worse of position as a result of the early termination this year than they were at the start of the season. I’d love to see Hearts come down personally - it’s in our financial interests and I’ve never been to Tynecastle - but I think there’s a fundamental unfairness in Hearts, Thistle and Stranraer being relegated that isn’t equivalent to Rangers losing out on a title or Morton missing out on a play off.

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Out of what? An overwhelming majority have spoken in favour of the SPFL’s resolution, there’s nothing to “get out of”.

 

A 14-10-10-10 still wouldn’t appease those clubs who could’ve been promoted through the play offs, which some may have forgotten, includes ourselves.

 

Do we go down the route of extending the leagues to the point that everyone’s happy or do we eventually decide to just get on with it?

 

Partick didn’t have the opportunity to save themselves, Falkirk didn’t have the opportunity to win the league and we didn’t have the opportunity to make the play offs. Yes, we were further from our target than they were but a line has to be drawn somewhere.

 

Perhaps the best resolution is for Hearts, Partick, Falkirk, Stranraer and Edinburgh to dry their respective eyes, accept they haven’t been good enough and try again next time.

 

What a lot of people, not necessarily on this hotbed of high browed sporting, political and cultural debate, seem to have forgotten is that all the clubs mentioned above, with the exception of Edinburgh, really have nobody to blame but themselves for finding themselves in that predicament.

 

Aye, agreed. I don't particularly like the idea of ending a season this way, but it's done now and the handful of losers in it are just going to need to get over it - restructuring leagues to save teams from their own shiteness would be far, far worse than calling the season early. The overwhelming majority of clubs have voted for this outcome, therefore that's how it should be. It could be much worse.

 

Every single aspect of modern life is up in the air, so if a small handful of people in Scottish football are a bit put out then that's just how it has to be. It's a realisation that football is going to have to come to in general, I think - the idea that there's going to be a return to normality any time soon and that next season is going to run as scheduled is for the birds. 

AWMSC

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Why would Hamilton, Livingston and St Mirren vote for a 14 team top flight season with 3 relegation places? Especially if two of those teams being added/saved are Hearts and Dundee United, who would always be likely to finish above them in any regular season anyway?

 

Same in our division. What benefit is it to ourselves to have a league of Ayr, Dunermline, Morton, Falkirk, Arbroath, Queen of the South, Partick, Raith, Dundee, Alloa with 3 relegation places, and no promotion play-offs? It would be absolutely lunacy to accept that.

 

Temporary reconstruction is not happening. It only benefits the 4 horrible wee chancers trying to cheat themselves into a better posiiton for the 20/21 season

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Aye, agreed. I don't particularly like the idea of ending a season this way, but it's done now and the handful of losers in it are just going to need to get over it - restructuring leagues to save teams from their own shiteness would be far, far worse than calling the season early. The overwhelming majority of clubs have voted for this outcome, therefore that's how it should be. It could be much worse.

 

Every single aspect of modern life is up in the air, so if a small handful of people in Scottish football are a bit put out then that's just how it has to be. It's a realisation that football is going to have to come to in general, I think - the idea that there's going to be a return to normality any time soon and that next season is going to run as scheduled is for the birds.

The point though is that it isn’t done now - the resolution was tabled alongside a commitment to look at reconstruction, which is now given shape in the form of a working group. And 14-10-10-10 is probably the cleanest solution that they’ll come up with. It’s also a long shot. But I don’t think any club here is changing their arm or cheating their way out of relegation (generally - not your message) by pushing at that while there’s still an opportunity to do so.

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You can't reconstruct your way out of unfairness. If it's unfair for Raith to go up while Falkirk don't, why is it fair for Falkirk to go up while Airdrie, Montrose and East Fife don't, or for ICT to go up while Dundee & Ayr don't, as would happen in the 14-10-10-10 plan?

 

No matter what system you pick there are clubs who'll narrowly lose out as Falkirk have on the basis of an incomplete league table. You go to a 16 team top flight to appease Dundee and Ayr then Dunfermline and Arbroath just miss it. Go to 18 and Morton just miss it.

 

Or forget the Championship and resolve the League One complaints with a 14-14-14 that promotes six of them, meaning all the title challengers get up, but then Clyde have just missed out behind Dumbarton. Cove would be hard done by as well in that scenario, getting 'promoted' along with everyone else in their division and only playing the relegation fodder of the division they should have been promoted into rather than Partick, Falkirk & Airdrie.

 

Why is reconstruction which punishes any of those clubs for their position before 36 games were played a less unfair option than punishing Hearts, Partick and Stranraer for being the worst teams in their leagues before 38/36 games were played?

 

An unfair outcome is unavoidable for someone here and if you try to reconstruct your way out of anyone feeling hard done you'll end up with a 42-46 team league. A back of a fag packet reconstruction to a system no one would actually want when things were normal is a way to make a bad situation worse, not better.

Brian Wake my Lord, Brian Wake

Brian Wake my Lord, Brian Wake

Brian Wake my Lord, Brian Wake

Oh Lord, Brian Wake

 

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You can't reconstruct your way out of unfairness. If it's unfair for Raith to go up while Falkirk don't, why is it fair for Falkirk to go up while Airdrie, Montrose and East Fife don't, or for ICT to go up while Dundee & Ayr don't, as would happen in the 14-10-10-10 plan?

 

No matter what system you pick there are clubs who'll narrowly lose out as Falkirk have on the basis of an incomplete league table. You go to a 16 team top flight to appease Dundee and Ayr then Dunfermline and Arbroath just miss it. Go to 18 and Morton just miss it.

 

Or forget the Championship and resolve the League One complaints with a 14-14-14 that promotes six of them, meaning all the title challengers get up, but then Clyde have just missed out behind Dumbarton. Cove would be hard done by as well in that scenario, getting 'promoted' along with everyone else in their division and only playing the relegation fodder of the division they should have been promoted into rather than Partick, Falkirk & Airdrie.

 

Why is reconstruction which punishes any of those clubs for their position before 36 games were played a less unfair option than punishing Hearts, Partick and Stranraer for being the worst teams in their leagues before 38/36 games were played?

 

An unfair outcome is unavoidable for someone here and if you try to reconstruct your way out of anyone feeling hard done you'll end up with a 42-46 team league. A back of a fag packet reconstruction to a system no one would actually want when things were normal is a way to make a bad situation worse, not better.

I would say the unfairness is different for a team who is left in a worse position than than they were in when the aborted season started because they are relegated than it is for a team who has failed to gain something from that season. I think it’s easy enough to justify a no detriment principle that starts there. It doesn’t get you very far in terms of solutions that clubs will then vote for. But it’s the SPFL who put reconstruction on the table so it’s all eyes on the working group. That in itself might be what keeps Budge from picking up Thistle’s legal opinion and running with it - and before you know it there isn’t time to reconstruct anything...

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Not sure on the 14, 10, 10 and 10 set up for one season.

 

8 in bottom div won't be happy with two new teams who might survive the initial season, if happening keep to eight teams.

 

No promotion from the championship, no point in attending games and high chance original survivors will be relegated next year.

 

More than just St M, L and Hamilton could be in the PL relegation mix.

 

Time to accept this is not a normal year so current decision was necessary for survival and getting to next year.

 

Let's continue with the strategy that PL games should be completed by a set last date. Would suggest end of June and work out when games must start by. This will impinge on the summer break but so be it.

 

Once we reach the point of no return vote to end the league and award the title and relegation spot.

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The point though is that it isn’t done now - the resolution was tabled alongside a commitment to look at reconstruction, which is now given shape in the form of a working group. And 14-10-10-10 is probably the cleanest solution that they’ll come up with. It’s also a long shot. But I don’t think any club here is changing their arm or cheating their way out of relegation (generally - not your message) by pushing at that while there’s still an opportunity to do so.

 

Was that officially part of the motion that was voted on ? There's been a lot of talk of it, but I haven't saw anything that says it was part of what was voted on: if it was, I stand corrected; if not, then there's not really much grounds for griping after the fact.

 

I think it'd be extremely dubious if the lower league clubs voted to finish the season as is, only for the top flight ones to try to rail-road through an expansion. The top team being promoted is fair enough as we know there's only one guaranteed promotion place, but to then totally change the way the reward structure and allow the second place team to go up too? That'd be completely unfair and (at least in my opinion) would completely change the complexion of the initial vote.

 

None of this is ideal at all and I'm not particularly a fan of it, but it's (just about) the least unfair solution. It's a horrible over-used phrase in Scottish football these days, but to start changing league sizes to (fairly explicitly, given that Budge has been allowed to head the committee)  suit a few clubs only - who aren't anywhere close to as big a deal as they think they are - would be the end of any notion of "sporting integrity". 

 

Specifically on Hearts, they've been digging their own grave for several seasons with that bawbag Levein in charge before appointing some other diddy as his replacement. It seems a bit late for them to start squealing about not wanting to get relegated, to be honest. 

AWMSC

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