Morton Club Together Updates

[TONofmemories]

Christ almighty.

[Toby]

My point wasn’t about the grammar mistakes, rather than that the responses suddenly converted from universally poor grammar to almost perfect grammar! IMHO this definitely indicated that a different person was penning the responses. Would that make you you doubt the integrity of MCT? Maybe not. Would it make me doubt it? Possibly.

You’re really hard work.

[TONofmemories]

Being a bellend for the sake of it.

[TheGoon]

DreamOakTree has to be an alias. There’s no way somebody’s actually that dense, all the time.

[TaunTon]

DreamOakTree has to be an alias. There’s no way somebody’s actually that dense, all the time.

Of course it's an alias and a tedìous bore as they usually are. Shove the cvnt and his mate beetee on ignore and wait for the next witty inadequate to arrive.

[HamCam]

Of course it's an alias and a tedìous bore as they usually are. Shove the cvnt and his mate beetee on ignore and wait for the next witty inadequate to arrive.

 

Do I count TT? 

[DreamOakTree]

You’re really hard work.

If you want to take my cash that's probably true!

[capitanus]

On the “false alarm” question:

 

The MCT idea came after the Gamble Halls when Crawford Rae announced that his family would no longer bankroll Morton and that Morton would operate on a break even budget.

It also came at a time when Morton were dicing with relegation and losing money hand over fist despite his family bankrolling Morton at that time.

 

 

Hi Graham, thank you for your reply. I am well aware of how this idea came about as it has been well documented, whether it's here or in local and/or national press.

 

MCT believes that without quick and significant action in terms of new monies being made available, there’s a real risk in the context that Mr Rae set out, that Morton will go backwards on and off the field from a pretty low base.

 

 

There is a very big difference between Morton's very existence being endangered in a similar way to it was c.2000/2001; than Crawford pleading poverty on his family's behalf before setting out his own 'sustainability' agenda.

 

The club is not in danger of going bust at this point in time. It's scaremongering which you have bought into, hook, line and sinker.

 

The Rae Family, via virtue of their inheritance from DDFR, are the controlling owners of Greenock Morton FC; and with that ownership comes the responsibilities associated with ownership, which includes ensuring that the clubs liabilities are met and the company is trading solvent. In the event they are unwilling or unable to operate in this manner, they should to the right thing and sell up.

 

What you have effectively done with this hairbrained scheme is effectively concoct a plan to maintain the status quo where the Rae Family can reap all the benefits of ownership without living up to their responsibilities.

 

After two years are up, what then?

 

 

We wanted to act before the possibility of real footballing and financial trouble loomed. The urgency is a matter of opinion. MCT looked at the facts and devised the project in response. The fact that the idea was pitched to the Morton Board and they were interested suggests that they see it as a potential long term solution for Morton. We still don’t see any other options, nor are we aware of any.

 

 

Of course 'The Morton Board' see this is a great idea, it is effectively letting them of the hook big time. There will be no banners telling the Rae Family to 'Get tae F..' whilst they neglect what is their responsibilities, whether they like it or not. If it doesn't come to fruition or if there are any shortcomings, there won't be any of the Rae's holding their hands up saying it was their fault. No, they'll blame the fans.

 

If the club was profitable, they wouldn't be looking to give back to the supporters any time soon,would they?

 

 

We firmly believe this is a good idea. From Day 1, MCT has made it clear that a key part of the project is people coming forward to help and to share their own ideas and knowledge to make Morton better, more sustainable and viable. The idea, or very similar versions of it, is in place at St Mirren, Hibs, Hearts, Motherwell, Dunfermline, Clyde, Stirling Albion and several other clubs across the world.

We have consulted with SMISA, HSL, Hearts FC, Scottish Football Supporters Association, expert lawyers and accountants. Input from these individuals and groups are being used to strengthen the MCT proposition.

 

 

Every bunch of chinless wonders who go onto Dragons Den with their Elderflower & Pisswater Gin 'business' also thinks whatever they are doing is a 'great idea' too, until it gets torn up for arse paper.

 

You have name checked several organisations, supporters Trusts from other clubs etc. But what you have came up with is a scheme that resembles none of the above, going long roads for a shortcut and trying to reinvent the wheel while becoming a local celebrity in the process.

 

Name checking Hearts doesn't impress me. Your idea is still crap and riddled with flaws.

 

If anyone has suggestions for improvement of the project then we would urge them to contact MCT to share them. Many already have done this either by email, social media, or by coming to open events. Additional Q and A events have also been offered and if anyone wishes either one to one or group sessions, this would be welcome and please contact us and we’ll get this set up.

 

 

^^^ Flannel.

 

Serious question, did you try and engage with like-minded individuals amongst the Morton support who were thinking along the same lines before you came up with this fag packet idea? I'm not talking about all your mates from the local third sector gravy train, and 'boy with drum' and all that pish. I'm thinking along the lines of some of the founder members of GMST, people who were involved with 'Save the Ton' back in the day etc? If you fail to plan, then you plan to fail.

 

Also,

 

What would be your thoughts on a future Debt-for-equity swap effectively wiping out any shareholdings, thus making your efforts to acquire a stake in the club futile in the first place?

 

What are your thoughts on the prospect of Sandy Easdale becoming a majority shareholder at some point in the future? How would you ensure that he acts in the best interests of the club and the supporters? After all, that is the elephant in the room which everyone is blissfully ignorant to, and one which poses a real threat to Morton's existence.

 

 

 

We appreciate that any project of this nature has a chance of failure. One of our key aims on 26 April was to find out if there is an appetite for Morton supporters to engage in a step towards community ownership. There is and the MCT team is working very hard to try to make this a success.

 

Graham.

^^^more Flannel.

 

As I said above, after two years, what then?

 

If you fail to plan then you plan to fail. Your idea should still have been on the drawing board at the time you were getting your publicity in the Daily Record.

 

Good luck to you, but not with my money. I'm out.

Edited June 30, 2019 by capitanus

[TaunTon]

Do I count TT? 

You're too wee to count.

[vikingTON]

Money will stay in Morton FC because MCT will be gifted shares in GMFC from Golden Casket in return for our financial contribution over 24 months to Morton First Team costs. MCT is not buying shares on behalf of pledgers. We are being given shares in return for a financial contribution to strengthen the Morton first team for 2 seasons. At the end of that period we will still own the shares.

Well hooray to our GC overlords for deigning to gift shares in a football club that they've steered straight into a wall with £2 million of self-inflicted debt, now that they want someone else to take responsibility for it, in return for their annual IOUs no longer being required. 

 

I really don't see why MCT insist on adopting such a frankly craven position on this: the shareholding should be the very least that an investment group should be demanding in exchange for financial investment in the club right now. It's not a gift from the grace of Crawford Rae and every time you say this the less likely I am to convert a pledge into a regular contribution. 

 

The idea, or very similar versions of it, is in place at St Mirren, Hibs, Hearts, Motherwell, Dunfermline, Clyde, Stirling Albion and several other clubs across the world.

 

Well hold on that's just not true at all: the entire premise of those schemes are to control the eventual ownership of the club. People back them not just to throw some good money after bad at the club but rather to change how it is run and to hold (at very least) a valuable stake that any future investor would have to account for. None of them to my knowledge have run on the basis of being merely 'gifted' shares from the current regime in exchange for subsidising the near-term running costs of the business. There are some merits to that particular idea compared to the status quo, but to put yourselves in the same bracket as Foundation of Hearts is laughable without greater ambition and leadership coming to the fore. 

Edited July 1, 2019 by vikingTON

[9 Strathblane Crescent]

Hi Graham, thank you for your reply. I am well aware of how this idea came about as it has been well documented, whether it's here or in local and/or national press.

 

There is a very big difference between Morton's very existence being endangered in a similar way to it was c.2000/2001; than Crawford pleading poverty on his family's behalf before setting out his own 'sustainability' agenda.

 

The club is not in danger of going bust at this point in time. It's scaremongering which you have bought into, hook, line and sinker.

 

The Rae Family, via virtue of their inheritance from DDFR, are the controlling owners of Greenock Morton FC; and with that ownership comes the responsibilities associated with ownership, which includes ensuring that the clubs liabilities are met and the company is trading solvent. In the event they are unwilling or unable to operate in this manner, they should to the right thing and sell up.

 

What you have effectively done with this hairbrained scheme is effectively concoct a plan to maintain the status quo where the Rae Family can reap all the benefits of ownership without living up to their responsibilities.

 

After two years are up, what then?

 

 

Of course 'The Morton Board' see this is a great idea, it is effectively letting them of the hook big time. There will be no banners telling the Rae Family to 'Get tae F..' whilst they neglect what is their responsibilities, whether they like it or not. If it doesn't come to fruition or if there are any shortcomings, there won't be any of the Rae's holding their hands up saying it was their fault. No, they'll blame the fans.

 

If the club was profitable, they wouldn't be looking to give back to the supporters any time soon,would they?

 

 

Every bunch of chinless wonders who go onto Dragons Den with their Elderflower & Pisswater Gin 'business' also thinks whatever they are doing is a 'great idea' too, until it gets torn up for arse paper.

 

You have name checked several organisations, supporters Trusts from other clubs etc. But what you have came up with is a scheme that resembles none of the above, going long roads for a shortcut and trying to reinvent the wheel while becoming a local celebrity in the process.

 

Name checking Hearts doesn't impress me. Your idea is still crap and riddled with flaws.

 

^^^ Flannel.

 

Serious question, did you try and engage with like-minded individuals amongst the Morton support who were thinking along the same lines before you came up with this fag packet idea? I'm not talking about all your mates from the local third sector gravy train, and 'boy with drum' and all that pish. I'm thinking along the lines of some of the founder members of GMST, people who were involved with 'Save the Ton' back in the day etc? If you fail to plan, then you plan to fail.

 

Also,

 

What would be your thoughts on a future Debt-for-equity swap effectively wiping out any shareholdings, thus making your efforts to acquire a stake in the club futile in the first place?

 

What are your thoughts on the prospect of Sandy Easdale becoming a majority shareholder at some point in the future? How would you ensure that he acts in the best interests of the club and the supporters? After all, that is the elephant in the room which everyone is blissfully ignorant to, and one which poses a real threat to Morton's existence.

 

 

 

^^^more Flannel.

 

As I said above, after two years, what then?

 

If you fail to plan then you plan to fail. Your idea should still have been on the drawing board at the time you were getting your publicity in the Daily Record.

 

Good luck to you, but not with my money. I'm out.

For once I find myself agreeing with Capitanus . Christmas card will be in the post.

[ralston]

So MCT will own the shares 'gifted' in return for the monthly contribution. Pledgers won't own them. So pledgers aren't investing in Morton at all...they are simply providing the funds to allow MCT (presumably its directors?) to become shareholders?

 

And I'd like more clarification on Toby's point above, which has always confused me about this scheme. How are the club going to use a funding stream that has no guarantee of being sustained over the new season, never mind the season after that?

[LargsTON]

For once I find myself agreeing with Capitanus . Christmas card will be in the post.

Who are you?

[capitanus]

For once I find myself agreeing with Capitanus . Christmas card will be in the post.

Who are you?

 

If I get a Christmas Card from some random Morton supporter, I'll let you know.

[capitanus]

Well hooray to our GC overlords for deigning to gift shares in a football club that they've steered straight into a wall with £2 million of self-inflicted debt, now that they want someone else to take responsibility for it, in return for their annual IOUs no longer being required. 

 

I really don't see why MCT insist on adopting such a frankly craven position on this: the shareholding should be the very least that an investment group should be demanding in exchange for financial investment in the club right now. It's not a gift from the grace of Crawford Rae and every time you say this the less likely I am to convert a pledge into a regular contribution. 

 

 

I would be keen to know if any financial advice was given by a chartered accountant, IFA or solicitor with regards to the proposed 'gift' of shares thing, as such a gift would be considered taxable if not mitigated against properly.

 

A far more 'clean cut' method would be to purchase the shares, and make a proviso of the deal that the monies raised via the purchase of the shares would be 'invested' into Morton by the current majority owner(s). Another proviso could be the removal of any debts owed by Morton to its current majority owner(s).

 

However, that isn't what is being proposed here. Instead what we have is 'ivry buddy chips in munny' then Crawford will still continue to run it like the omnishambles it has been for the past two decades, and in two years time we haven't progressed any further either on or off the Park.

 

 

Well hold on that's just not true at all: the entire premise of those schemes are to control the eventual ownership of the club. People back them not just to throw some good money after bad at the club but rather to change how it is run and to hold (at very least) a valuable stake that any future investor would have to account for. None of them to my knowledge have run on the basis of being merely 'gifted' shares from the current regime in exchange for subsidising the near-term running costs of the business. There are some merits to that particular idea compared to the status quo, but to put yourselves in the same bracket as Foundation of Hearts is laughable without greater ambition and leadership coming to the fore.

 

The scary thing is, Morton going into administration at some point in the future is not unforeseeable, and we may need to ask the community and all Morton supporters to dig deep for their loose change, for their extra tenners a month, attend fundraisers, bid at auctions, sell their kidneys etc. In order to keep the club afloat.

 

Crawford borrowing his bus mate's tactic* of pleading poverty in order to squeeze some extra money from his paying punters was a false alarm. This MCT guy was gullible enough to fall for the 'nae baw-bees left' story, when he would have served the Morton support better by calling their bluff by telling them if they aren't going to meet their responsibilities as club owners and custodians, then they should do the honourable thing and sell up.

 

This club could (and should) be very profitable if it was run properly.

 

 

*https://mobile.twitter.com/Buses_McGills/status/1096450290499444738

[ralston]

So MCT will own the shares 'gifted' in return for the monthly contribution. Pledgers won't own them. So pledgers aren't investing in Morton at all...they are simply providing the funds to allow MCT (presumably its directors?) to become shareholders?

 

And I'd like more clarification on Toby's point above, which has always confused me about this scheme. How are the club going to use a funding stream that has no guarantee of being sustained over the new season, never mind the season after that?

 

Still waiting for answers...

[ralston]

ffs the threds called ask anything 

 

Exactly.

[so72]

it says mct ask me anything ralstones right

Its was an AMA set up for a paticular night at a paticular time though. They've continued to respond but as Dean said, they are just volunteers. Their website has a decent amount of info as does this thread. Plus you can email them.

 

I know they are trying to get your money so perhaps you want them to come and seek out your questions but I think they've been very reasonable in their attempts to field questions

[vikingTON]

The scary thing is, Morton going into administration at some point in the future is not unforeseeable, and we may need to ask the community and all Morton supporters to dig deep for their loose change, for their extra tenners a month, attend fundraisers, bid at auctions, sell their kidneys etc. In order to keep the club afloat.

 

Crawford borrowing his bus mate's tactic* of pleading poverty in order to squeeze some extra money from his paying punters was a false alarm. This MCT guy was gullible enough to fall for the 'nae baw-bees left' story, when he would have served the Morton support better by calling their bluff by telling them if they aren't going to meet their responsibilities as club owners and custodians, then they should do the honourable thing and sell up.

 

This club could (and should) be very profitable if it was run properly.

 

This is my concern as well and is why I think MCT needs to set out a far more assertive vision of its purpose and the future of the club. There needs of course to be a courteous working relationship with GC to get things off the ground but that company's interests are no longer aligned with the club's, not even one bit. The point of MCT then should be to start levering these disinterested and incompetent club stewards out of the door - which given they want out anyway should not be prove a great conflict - but on our terms and not theirs. It should be to build up a credible organisation that secures the trust and goodwill of the fanbase and local interest groups so that it is well positioned to deal with the real crisis that seems coming down the chute in the very near future.

 

An organisation that exists largely to prop up the existing regime for as long as possible will not do that, and given the previous failure of GMST for similar reasons I reckon it would be very, very difficult to put together a third umbrella group to support the club's future when it is most badly needed. 

Edited July 5, 2019 by vikingTON

[EanieMeany]

This is my concern as well and is why I think MCT needs to set out a far more assertive vision of its purpose and the future of the club. There needs of course to be a courteous working relationship with GC to get things off the ground but that company's interests are no longer aligned with the club's, not even one bit. The point of MCT then should be to start levering these disinterested and incompetent club stewards out of the door - which given they want out anyway should not be prove a great conflict - but on our terms and not theirs. It should be to build up a credible organisation that secures the trust and goodwill of the fanbase and local interest groups so that it is well positioned to deal with the real crisis that seems coming down the chute in the very near future.

 

An organisation that exists largely to prop up the existing regime for as long as possible will not do that, and given the previous failure of GMST for similar reasons I reckon it would be very, very difficult to put together a third umbrella group to support the club's future when it is most badly needed. 

Agree entirely with this. This had to be done right, which meant a lot of planning rather than running to the nearest newspaper and name-dropping ex-players every time somebody asks questions.

 

 

Its was an AMA set up for a paticular night at a paticular time though. They've continued to respond but as Dean said, they are just volunteers. Their website has a decent amount of info as does this thread. Plus you can email them.

 

I know they are trying to get your money so perhaps you want them to come and seek out your questions but I think they've been very reasonable in their attempts to field questions

 

As above, and also...there's about 40 people on the leadership team, a number of whom are apparently there in "fan liason" or "communication" roles. What exactly is the point of them if they're not answering questions on the busiest supporters' outlet on the internet? It's blatantly obvious that they haven't been given any clearer a brief than anybody else, because if they had they'd be able to work together to provide clear, concise information on this thread and elsewhere. It's yet another sign of the poor organisation of the project.

 

Also, the new website is a shambles. I'm more than open to a fan investment/ownership scheme, but this is a cack-handed mess as it stands.

Edited July 5, 2019 by EanieMeany